# LOTR: What did Sam's cousin see **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 6, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104 "2004-01-06T23:25:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![robinc308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@robinc308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinc308)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/1 "2004-01-06T23:25:49Z")
I have been rereading the Lord of the Rings books, and for the first time noticed something. In the second chapter of the Fellowship of the Ring, there is a coversation between Ted Sandyman and Sam, where Sam says that his cousin Hal had seen a giant Tree walking around: > [@](#): > > ‘All right’, said Sam, laughing with the rest. ‘But what about these Tree-men, these giants, as you might call them? They do say that one bigger than a tree was seen up away beyond the North Moors not long back.’ > ‘Who’s they?’ > ‘My cousin Hal for one. He works for Mr. Boffin at Overhill and goes up to the Northfarthing for the hunting. He saw one.’ > ‘Says he did, perhaps. Your Hal’s always saying that he’s seen things; and maybe he sees things that ain’t there.’ > ‘But this one was as big as an elm tree, and walking - walking seven yards to a stride, if it was an inch.’ > ‘Then I bet it wasn’t an inch. What he saw was an elm tree, as like as not.’ > ‘But this one was walking, I tell you; and there ain’t no elm tree on the North Moors.’ So what was it that Hal saw? I can think of several possibilities: a) He saw a tree - maybe it was walking around, and maybe he was mistaken. b) He saw an Ent c) He saw one of the Entwives - this would fit with the part where Treebeard says to Merry and Pippin that the Entwives would like the shire. d) He saw some other creature. What was it that Hal saw? Did he really find the Entwives (or at least one of them)? ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/2 "2004-01-06T23:40:43Z")
I think Hal had been hitting the pipeweed a little too hard… ---
**Author:** ![lilbtagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4491bb/32.png) [@lilbtagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilbtagna)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/3 "2004-01-07T00:18:24Z")
I’ve always thought that he spotted an Entwife, but of course Sam didn’t know such things existed at the time. It does fit in nicely with the conversations Merry and Pippin have with Treebeard later on. ---
**Author:** ![c\_carol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@c\_carol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/c_carol)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/4 "2004-01-07T00:19:59Z")
I think it was a Huorn. ---
**Author:** ![Gulo\_gulo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bcef8e/32.png) [@Gulo\_gulo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gulo_gulo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/5 "2004-01-07T04:44:44Z")
I always assumed that it was one of the Entwives as well. ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/6 "2004-01-07T05:44:06Z")
I, too, assumed it was an Entwife. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/7 "2004-01-07T07:05:15Z")
It was Jimmy Hoffa. ---
**Author:** ![Horseflesh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horseflesh/32/7502_2.png) [@Horseflesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horseflesh)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/8 "2004-01-07T08:04:15Z")
It was Peter Jackson. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Batman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/22d042/32.png) [@The\_Batman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Batman)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/9 "2004-01-07T08:23:20Z")
It was that car they edited out in the DVD ---
**Author:** ![The\_Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Griffin)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/10 "2004-01-07T11:09:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tijuana\_Golds \* > \*\*It was that car they edited out in the DVD \*\* Was there really a car in the cinema release of TFOTR? ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/11 "2004-01-07T11:23:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Griffin \* > \*\*Was there really a car in the cinema release of TFOTR? \*\* Oh yes! It still can be seen in some of the DVD extras. If you have the original National Geographic special it’s in there too. On the FOTR Extended DVD, the editor talks in his audio commentary about how he removed it from the DVD version. Jackson also mentions it, but says he never saw it. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/12 "2004-01-07T11:25:18Z")
I assumed it was an Entwife too, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/13 "2004-01-07T11:36:03Z")
Huorn, I always thought, or one of the Entwives. Pity that Merry and Pippin don’t know Hal’s story to relay it to Treebeard. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/14 "2004-01-07T11:49:21Z")
I’d always assumed he hadn’t seen anything, as it’s suggested that he is always seeing improbable things ---
**Author:** ![The\_Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Griffin)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/15 "2004-01-07T11:50:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by One And Only Wanderers \* > \*\*I’d always assumed he hadn’t seen anything, as it’s suggested that he is always seeing improbable things \*\* Then it was a bit pointless adding it to the story… ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/16 "2004-01-07T16:00:52Z")
I had always figured that it was a setup for Old Man Willow, Huorns, and Ents. I seem to remember reading somewhere in - either in the Appendies or Tolkien’s letters, that the Ent-Wives are actually dead, having been destroyed by Sauron in the last war. They were where the ‘Brown Lands’ are at the time of LOTR. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/17 "2004-01-07T16:19:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Griffin \* > \*\*Then it was a bit pointless adding it to the story… \*\* Could have been to add to the atmosphere of the Shire - small remote community = shaggy dog’s tales and gossiping etc (just an idea im not saying it’s necessarily correct) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/18 "2004-01-07T17:12:46Z")
I don’t think it was Entwives. I would think if the Entwives were roaming around near the Shire, the elves would have sniffed them out way back when and let the Ents know. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/19 "2004-01-08T14:48:44Z")
\<\< I had always figured that it was a setup for Old Man Willow, Huorns, and Ents. \>\> I agree, it’s to let you know that there are strange things out there away from the comfort of the Shire, and to foreshadow all the live trees. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104/20 "2004-01-08T15:11:34Z")
Pah! You’re all missing the point. The cool part about this scene is that it _could be_ any of the above! Maybe it was the entwives. Maybe it was something to do with the Old Forest. Maybe Hal enjoys his ale a bit too much. You know? _That_ is why this scene is exists to begin with. And also, yes, it does foreshadow events to come. But in and of itself, it exists in order to be an enigma, not to be solved. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-what-did-sams-cousin-see/223104.md?page=2)