# LOTR: Why the big debate about Balrogs and wings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 11, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-why-the-big-debate-about-balrogs-and-wings/284169 "2005-01-11T04:52:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rube_E.Tewesday)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-why-the-big-debate-about-balrogs-and-wings/284169/81 "2005-01-13T17:45:35Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Except that _Leaf by Niggle_ is hardly Tolkien’s only allegory. _Smith of Wooton Major_ is allegorical down to its ickle toesies, too. None of the Middle-Earth books, however, is. The feel is entirely different. You can tell quite easily that the events in M-E were intended to have actually happened, as opposed to being misty moral-in-a-box allegories like _LbyN_ and _SoWM_. OK, so we’re back to my “writers are complicated” bit. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-why-the-big-debate-about-balrogs-and-wings/284169/82 "2005-01-13T18:39:47Z")
> [@Rube E. Tewesday](#): > > I can’t imagine him deliberately sending up something he took very seriously. > [@jayjay](#): > > _Leaf by Niggle_ is hardly Tolkien’s only allegory. Well, so much for my theory. > [@Rube E. Tewesday](#): > > OK, so we’re back to my “writers are complicated” bit. Yep. Maybe I had better keep my conjectures confined to “Bored of the Rings”. Much less likely to get proven wrong. 🆒 I understand you undertake quests… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-why-the-big-debate-about-balrogs-and-wings/284169/83 "2005-01-13T19:09:16Z")
_Niggle_ seemed to me to be about non-conformity. So why the hell did it end that way? If it is religious allegory, then I guess it would be saying that conformity is a Good Thing. Thanks. I think… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-why-the-big-debate-about-balrogs-and-wings/284169/84 "2005-01-13T20:28:28Z")
I dunno about conformity… I don’t remember anything about conformity, pro or con, in “Niggle”. In fact, the Heaven he ends up in is largely of his own creation: It’s the World where the tree he so painstakingly painted is real and growing. The ending, where the single leaf is found and framed, seems to just be a commentary on how little any of us can understand each other within this world. What’s especially amusing about “Leaf by Niggle” as allegory is that he preceeds the story with an in-depth discussion and definition of what constitutes a fairy tale, and presents the story as being an example of such… And then writes something completely and utterly inconsistent with the definition he just gave. Personally, I think the simplest explanation is that he originally meant the comment about disliking allegory in jest (remember, it was in a letter to his best friend, a prolific writer of allegory), but that when folks took him seriously, he took the joke and ran with it. And the Ballhog was definitely from Villanova, as I noticed while reading the book and attending that institution. Which is another way it’s dated: Had it been written at the time I read it, the runes would assuredly have read “Georgetown”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lotr-why-the-big-debate-about-balrogs-and-wings/284169.md?page=4)