# Lots and lots of new jobs in October **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212 "2004-11-05T17:16:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212/1 "2004-11-05T17:16:21Z")
This is what I heard this morning on the news. I went :dubious: ? And the announcer went on to say that thousands of new jobs had, indeed been created… in the disaster area. Meaning that all the hurricanes and tornadoes and natural disasters had created lots of jobs in the clean-up crew, etc. Nothing like seeing thousands of skilled professionals picking up downed trees. Anybody want to pit this better? NOTE: this has nothing to do with BUsh! I’m just sayin’, is all. I don’t wanna talk about him anymore, so please don’t hijack my thread. ---
**Author:** ![Linear\_Crack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Linear\_Crack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linear_Crack)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212/2 "2004-11-05T17:55:42Z")
> [@Elenia28](#): > > This is what I heard this morning on the news. I went :dubious: ? And the announcer went on to say that thousands of new jobs had, indeed been created… > > in the disaster area. Meaning that all the hurricanes and tornadoes and natural disasters had created lots of jobs in the clean-up crew, etc. > > Nothing like seeing thousands of skilled professionals picking up downed trees. Anybody want to pit this better? > > NOTE: this has nothing to do with BUsh! I’m just sayin’, is all. I don’t wanna talk about him anymore, so please don’t hijack my thread. Uhh, let me get this straight. A few questions: 1. People get jobs and your complaining? Who does this hurt? 2. Why are you pitting job growth. If part of the new jobs come as a result from a natural disaster, who the fuck cares? They’re working right? 3. How do you know they are skilled professionals? 4. If this is not about the current Administration’s inability to create job, then why did you post this garage? -LC Bush 2004 and beyond! ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212/3 "2004-11-05T17:59:03Z")
> [@Linear Crack](#): > > …why did you post this garage? Gotta park the car someplace. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212/4 "2004-11-05T18:04:20Z")
Where do I go to Pit people who feel qualifed to comment on a complex employment report based on a few seconds overheard on the news? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212/5 "2004-11-05T18:10:45Z")
1. Disaster jobs are _temporary_, duh. Unless the new jobs campaign is a huge hurricane diversion machine. Which would probably create a lot of jobs in plenty of industries! 2. Yeah, my masters’ degree in library science really makes me suited for chainsawing trees. When we said “we need more jobs” we kind of meant “not the kind where you dig ditches.” I’d be okay if you paid me by the hour, but if you paid me by the ditch… There are some skilled jobs in disaster relief, sure - in construction, plumbing, etc; industries that at least around here were never hurting in the first place. My plumber has more work than he can handle, and he turns wannabe apprentices away all the time. 3. Hack me to death with a kitchen knife if I don’t get a full-time job soon! ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212/6 "2004-11-05T18:13:01Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > Where do I go to Pit people who feel qualifed to comment on a complex employment report based on a few seconds overheard on the news? **Q.E.D.** seems a little cheeky. maybe take it over [here?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284987) ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212/7 "2004-11-05T18:18:14Z")
Also, where’s the money to pay these people coming from? Federal disaster relief, anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212/8 "2004-11-05T18:19:41Z")
**LC:** _If part of the new jobs come as a result from a natural disaster, who the fuck cares? They’re working right?_ Well, one reason that jobs caused by natural disasters tend to be less desirable than other kinds is that the natural disasters themselves usually deliver a big sucker punch to the economy. What did the hurricane damage in Florida cost, tens of billions of dollars, IIRC? It’s true that rebuilding efforts tend to bring the economy back up, but you’ve got to climb up out of the hole before you’re even back on level ground. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212/9 "2004-11-05T18:28:28Z")
> [@Podkayne](#): > > Also, where’s the money to pay these people coming from? > > Federal disaster relief, anyone? Why that’s, that’s, \ _socialism!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212/10 "2004-11-05T18:32:26Z")
Not to be a big poopyhead and drag facts into this, but 337,000 new jobs were created and, according to the NYTimes > [@](#): > > Some one-time factors and seasonal effects improved the employment situation. The cleanup and reconstruction of the hurricane-ravaged Southeast contributed to the 71,000 new jobs in construction. The back-to school season increased teacher employment. But even stripping out these one-time events, Mr. Gay estimated the underlying job growth was around 200,000. “That is not a number to be pooh-poohed,” he said. So, many jobs were created via hurricane, but there is VERY solid job growth overall. Want to keep complaining? I’m not gonna stop ya. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212/11 "2004-11-05T18:48:06Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > 1. Disaster jobs are _temporary_, duh. Unless the new jobs campaign is a huge hurricane diversion machine. Which would probably create a lot of jobs in plenty of industries! > > 2. Yeah, my masters’ degree in library science really makes me suited for chainsawing trees. When we said “we need more jobs” we kind of meant “not the kind where you dig ditches.” I’d be okay if you paid me by the hour, but if you paid me by the ditch… There are some skilled jobs in disaster relief, sure - in construction, plumbing, etc; industries that at least around here were never hurting in the first place. My plumber has more work than he can handle, and he turns wannabe apprentices away all the time. > > 3. Hack me to death with a kitchen knife if I don’t get a full-time job soon! This is what I was pitting, not Bush. Just the idea that somehow creating temporary jobs to repair damage from a disaster that has already cost us money is in some way fixing things. I **manhattan** , I’d be glad to hear your definitive answers not basedon a 30-second report. Where else would you suggest I put this? GD? GQ? Is it true? Care to comment on it since you are obviously in the know? Or would you prefer to simply remain snarky? At least \*\*Cheesesteak \*\* posted a quote and a source and didn’t just snipe. Thank you, **Cheesesteak**. I am registered with the NY Times and will hunt down the link. **Linear Crack** : 1)People get jobs at the expense of…well a great deal of expense, and misery on other people’s part. 2)Mostly these kinds of jobs are temporary. 3)Of course I don’t know they in particular skilled professionals. I do know that many skilled professionals are out of jobs. Ergo, the skilled professionals that are out of jobs in the SE may very well take up these jobs out of desperation, as there doesn’t seem to be growth in their sector. 4)Not everything is about the current Administration, or any administration. I wasn’t pitting their inability to create jobs, I was pitting the fact that somehow temporary jobs are now to be considered a good indication of job growth, that the professional sector doesn’t seem to be growing. I’m tired of ranting about Bush, and I really don’t do it that much anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212/12 "2004-11-05T18:49:35Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Why that’s, that’s, \ _socialism!!!_ Lousy pinkos! If those lazy disaster vicitims would just pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, this country would be a better place. 😉 I was just thinkin’ that draining gubmint disaster-relief coffers is probably not as good for the economy as would the creation of real jobs by the private sector, but my knowledge of economics is most rudimentary, so I could be wrong. And some of the money almost certainly came from insurace companies, anyway. I assume that’s better, because it’s coming from the private sector, but I’m probably wrong about that, too. Could be that money in worker’s pockets = teh good, no matter where it comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212/13 "2004-11-05T19:02:17Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Not to be a big poopyhead and drag facts into this, but 337,000 new jobs were created and, according to the NYTimesSo, many jobs were created via hurricane, but there is VERY solid job growth overall. > > Want to keep complaining? I’m not gonna stop ya. OK, here goes. The economy needs to generate at least 150,000 jobs a month just to keep up with the growth in the working-age population. So, the “underlying job growth” figure of 200,000 you cited, which includes many thousands of government jobs, does not look all that great. You could say that it’s at least an improvement on the dismal performance of the past few months, but on the other hand, the unemployment rate went up to 5.5 percent. When numbers like these are cited as “very solid”, it shows how low our expectations have become. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212/14 "2004-11-05T19:20:18Z")
> [@Elenia28](#): > > Care to comment on it since you are obviously in the know? Or would you prefer to simply remain snarky? Well, it is the Pit. 😉 But OK, sorry for the snark. Not sure what news station you were listening to and how in depth they went, but this was a blowout, good news report. As **Cheesesteak** said, the total jobs created in October is estimated to be 337,000, a very good number. Also, the number of jobs estimated to have been created in September and August went up, by 43,000 and 70,000 respectively. So those months weren’t as soft as first thought. Of the 337,000 jobs, 71,000 were in construction. _Some_ of those were post-hurricane jobs – not all. By comparison, there were only 5,000 construction jobs added in September, and the 12-month average was 20,000. Even if you assume that all of the increase over the 12-month average (50,000) is both hurricane-related and temporary, you’re still left with 287,000 new jobs, a good number. Also, the jobs added were across the board, except in manufacturing. Based both on today’s report an on other data, they tended to be higher-wage jobs for more experienced workers. Productivity shows some signs of finally tailing off, a good sign (productivity growth is good for the economy, but there has to be periods where it cools in order for workers to catch the benefits of the growth rather than corporations). Job conditions are so good that people are returning to the workforce. Really, the only person who could see this report as anything but excellent would be someone who went into the morning long the 10-year (bonds went down, as they do when the economy expands). ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lots-and-lots-of-new-jobs-in-october/273212/15 "2004-11-05T20:34:50Z")
> [@Podkayne](#): > > Lousy pinkos! If those lazy disaster vicitims would just pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, this country would be a better place. 😉 Doubly ironic, since IIRC all the affected areas were in red states.