# Loud Exhausts on Motorcycles **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 13, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159 "2009-01-13T22:12:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/61 "2009-01-20T16:28:04Z")
Well - given the three options, I guess the second (accountant) fits me best. s/accountant/geek/ Why you ride the bike is not important to the original question, if I can try to drag this back on track… Why is it legal for a guy with a pickup to go put a loud exhaust on his truck but not a motorcycle. Why is it legal for a soccer mom in a minivan to replace her muffler with a (non-EPA registered) Meineke muffler and my motorcycle not. The reason for the new laws is that a small subset of people have modified their motorcycles to be obnoxious. However, the laws are, in my opinion, poorly written and go beyond what’s a reasonable response. I know that loud exhausts piss off people. No problem. I accept that “loud pipes save lives” is a very weak argument. I had hoped that the collective voices of the SDMB people, especially the input from those of you who are pissed off by loud pipes, might come to an agreement on what’s a reasonable, enforcable, way to craft a law. The desire is to come to a middle-ground meeting point between the reasonable ability for a motorcyclist to replace his 'cycle’s pipes (even just because they’re damaged) and the also reasonable desire for a citizen to not have 120 dB of cycle roaring by his house. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/62 "2009-01-20T16:45:03Z")
I have absolutely no doubt that loud pipes can save lives, but I doubt that is the primary motivation of many people that install loud pipes. It’s to stand out, to show off a little. I don’t think showing off a little necessarily warrants a complete psychological analysis. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/63 "2009-01-20T16:57:53Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > I have absolutely no doubt that loud pipes can save lives, . I have a great deal of doubt. I can’t hear even the loudest pipe in my car, at freeway speeds, with them coming up behind me. As they pass, _after_ they are already out of the “blind spot”, _then_ I can hear them. No highway or crash safety experts have endorsed the claim “loud pipes save lives”. And, of course, if the rider can’t hear other traffic, then _he’s_ worse off.Many forget that loud pipes means that the rider can’t hear worth crap. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/64 "2009-01-20T17:00:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have a great deal of doubt. I can’t hear even the loudest pipe in my car, at freeway speeds, with them coming up behind me. Freeways aren’t where most of the accidents happen, IIRC most motorcycle accidents are at intersections or just cases where they misjudge a curve or hit gravel and dump the bike. If a motorcycle with loud pipes comes up behind you at a stop light in the next lane to the left or right, you will hear him. You might not see him, but you’ll hear him. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/65 "2009-01-20T17:09:27Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Freeways aren’t where most of the accidents happen, IIRC most motorcycle accidents are at intersections or just cases where they misjudge a curve or hit gravel and dump the bike. If a motorcycle with loud pipes comes up behind you at a stop light in the next lane to the left or right, you will hear him. You might not see him, but you’ll hear him. Well, how do loud pipes help “where they misjudge a curve or hit gravel and dump the bike”? How would they help if I am stopped and they are behind me? I am stopped. If they are fully beside me, again, I can’t hurt the bike. It’s only when they are in my “blind spot”, we are both moving, and I cut over into his lane, not having seen the Bike (since a car is bigger) when they could help. And, in that case, they don’t, since I can’t hear them. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/66 "2009-01-20T17:10:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, how do loud pipes help “where they misjudge a curve or hit gravel and dump the bike”? How would they help if I am stopped and they are behind me? I am stopped. If they are fully beside me, again, I can’t hurt the bike. It’s only when they are in my “blind spot”, we are both moving, and I cut over into his lane, not having seen the Bike (since a car is bigger) when they could help. And, in that case, they don’t, since I can’t hear them. They don’t help on curves or gravel, I’m just stating those are the two top causes of accidents. Unless you’re deaf you should hear a bike with loud pipes coming up in your blind spot. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/67 "2009-01-20T17:24:11Z")
Here’s a point you are overlooking: the motorcyclist (and I are one) voluntarily chooses to ride a vehicle that is much less visible and much less safe than a car or a truck. He _chooses_ to. That doesn’t give him the right, in the name of his own safety, to annoy pedestrians, people with houses near the road, and anybody else he happens to ride past. Motorcycles are basically recreational vehicles. Yes, one _can_ ride them to work; but they are inherently less practical than enclosed vehicles, especially in parts of the country that experience real winter. They are, IOW, toys. If you can’t play quietly with your toy, the rest of the community may well feel that you shouldn’t have it at all. That is what loud pipes accomplish. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/68 "2009-01-20T17:26:48Z")
They’re a toy that gets 65MPG, which was pretty useful last summer. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/69 "2009-01-20T17:37:57Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > They’re a toy that gets 65MPG, which was pretty useful last summer. HD, which is the bike most dudes would attach “loud pipes” to, get 32-45MPG. > **[Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Fuel Economy Guide](https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/MotorcycleFuelEconomyGuide/Harley-Davidson?d=1)** > > Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Fuel Economy Guide (warning, pop-up ads) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/70 "2009-01-20T17:39:08Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Unless you’re deaf you should hear a bike with loud pipes coming up in your blind spot. :rolleyes: Nope, tested it. I have quite good hearing, too. And note that no highway safety experts makes the claim that Loud pipes save lives, either. It’s a made up line to justify being an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/71 "2009-01-20T17:44:00Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > They’re a toy that gets 65MPG, which was pretty useful last summer. Sometimes a toy is useful; that doesn’t make it any less of a toy. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/72 "2009-01-20T17:44:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > HD, which is the bike most dudes would attach “loud pipes” to, get 32-45MPG. > > [http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/MotorcycleFuelEconomyGuide/Harley-Davidson.htm](http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/MotorcycleFuelEconomyGuide/Harley-Davidson.htm) > > (warning, pop-up ads) HD is the steroptypical loud pipes bike, but many bikes people might think are Harleys are actually Hondas, Yamahas, or Suzukis. All of them make cruiser-style bikes that look like Harleys. Mine is a 750cc Honda and loud pipes are definitely available for them. My bike’s stock pipes are only loud if you rev it up. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/73 "2009-01-20T18:37:23Z")
Motorcycle ownership in the US is, IIRC, about 1 in 65, it’s one of the lowest rates in the world with Europe higher & Asia much, much higher. Motorcycles cause less congestion in city areas, especially when you consider that most cars in America have one driver in them. 'Cycles are even exempt from the daily “congestion” surcharge that London places on vehicles inside the city. As America continues to get more crowded and as gas prices continue to rise, 'cycles will be less and less a “toy” and more and more a “vehicle”. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/74 "2009-01-20T19:02:29Z")
If motorcycles become more of a vehicle and less of a toy, I would expect to see a lower proportion of loud-pipe bikes. Most cars don’t have loud mufflers or sound systems because most people consider their car just a vehicle, not a means of self-expression through annoying others. When Joe Average has a bike just to get to work, rather than to have fun and/or be cool, you’ll see lots of bikes that are the equivalent of a Toyota sedan on the road. ---
**Author:** ![Keweenaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Keweenaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keweenaw)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/75 "2009-01-20T19:35:56Z")
> [@Belrix](#): > > The stock EPA limit, though, is very low. [This chart](http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/sound-power-level-d_58.html) says 80dB is the volume of a dishwasher and even 100dB is the sound level of a car at highway speeds. Your link is refering to sound power. Which is an energy rate per unit of time, unaffected by environment or location. The Denver law refers to sound pressure level. [This is the link you want.](http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/sound-pressure-d_711.html) Sound pressure is measured at a discrete location. Defined by 15m in the denver law. I would expect a motorcycle that meets the 83 db(A) @ 15 m sound pressure level requirement, would actually have a much greater sound power level rating. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/76 "2009-01-20T20:13:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Aren’t you the one who bragged that he and his oh so brave:rolleyes: biker buddies once terrorized a single woman in a car? And then went on to allude you did worse to another woman with an infant child? > Yes, it is “sick, sick” to abuse a woman like that. But “puppy”? No. > [@Scumpup](#): > > You forgot one: “fat-ass hoopie who lives in a run-down mobile home, dresses his kids in stuff from Goodwill, and spends most of his paycheck from his shitty job on beer and bike payments.” > [@Sublight](#): > > Odd thing for you to say, considering that (a) nobody here has claimed you’ve said anything about “loud pipes saving lives”, while OTOH **JFLuvly** has posted twice claiming exactly that, and (b) the entirety of post #45 is an attempt by you to hijack the discussion as a safety issue, when nobody opposed to loud pipes has made it about safety at all. > > Furthermore, this in your first post: > > …makes absolutely no sense at all. Nobody has singled out HD for special attention here (does Harley even make bikes anymore? The shops over here seem to just stock baby clothes and kitchenwares), which really makes it look like you’re projecting. > > And your “it’s about fear” claim is simply pathetic. Fear of what? The ‘outlaw biker’ image has been relegated to sitcom stereotype since the '80s. The negative images bikers face nowadays are “twentysomething man-child” and “accountant having a midlife crisis.” This is fun. I am meeting so many saintly people… Actually the way I am is not my fault. I went to Catholic schools for 12 years… What do you expect? Oh, did I see a couple of reasonable post just now? Well I swan… May be hope after all. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/77 "2009-01-20T22:55:34Z")
> [@Jaglavak](#): > > Dude. That’s hilarious. It’s about the noise. Agreed. The bikes that bother me are louder than a group of landscapers. What do the national biker associations have to say? Do they have any suggestions or are they unilaterally pro-noise? I like the idea of noise measurement just being a part of the annual inspection. Too loud and you don’t pass. No sticker and you can’t drive. If riding is really too dangerous without shattering windows, then install flashing lights and an ice cream truck jingle. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159/78 "2009-01-20T22:58:56Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Agreed. The bikes that bother me are louder than a group of landscapers. > > What do the national biker associations have to say? Do they have any suggestions or are they unilaterally pro-noise? > > I like the idea of noise measurement just being a part of the annual inspection. Too loud and you don’t pass. No sticker and you can’t drive. > > If riding is really too dangerous without shattering windows, then install flashing lights and an ice cream truck jingle. Most motorcycle organization are “pro modification” and “pro choice” but generally acknowledge that “loud pipes saves lives” is weak and that there is a thing a too much noise. Most states, though, don’t have inspections for motorcycles. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-exhausts-on-motorcycles/481159.md?page=3)