# Loud pipes save lives-my ass **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 22, 2008, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886 "2008-08-22T01:57:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/61 "2008-08-22T21:29:13Z")
[QUOTE=Bayard] I do that with a horn. I just googled, and it appears that you can buy motorcycle horns that go up to nearly 140 dB. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but you cant drive down the road blasting a horn all day. The cops frown on that. It just makes cars aware of you. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/62 "2008-08-22T21:33:41Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] Sorry, buddy, but you’re a fucking moron. Earplugs cut out wind noise, and make other vehicles _easier_ to hear, not harder. Maybe you should try it sometime? Otherwise, you’re not going to be able to hear shit in 20 years, even sans earplugs. [/QUOTE] Did I insult you? Yeah it’s the pit, but that doesnt mean you can’t show some self control. No, it doesn’t make cars easier to hear. Yes I have tried it. And no you don’t go deaf from ridding motorcycles. I’ve been riding for over 25 years, I know people who have been riding for 50. None of us are deaf…seriously. Never met one person who is deaf from riding a motorcycle. ever. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/63 "2008-08-22T21:38:40Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] The loud-pipes contingent, even as adequately represented by bdgr, is consistently shot down by actual data: . [/QUOTE] Not really. The bad motorcycle accidents I’ve seen friends and customers get into (one of them fatal) involved a car turning in front of the bike. That does fit your stats, and thats how it usually happens. And the excuse the car drive always gives is that they didn’t know the bike was even there. With loud pipes you know a bike is there blocks away. People look for the source of the loud noise. THE AMA is more concerned with public image than anything else and always has been. I don’t really pay much attention to them. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/64 "2008-08-22T21:55:32Z")
[QUOTE=bdgr] With loud pipes you know a bike is there blocks away. [/QUOTE] I guess it depends on whether or not you think this is a bad thing. Hell, even ambulances and fire trucks drive me nuts, because I can hear them but I can’t see them and I don’t know where the hell they are. And, again, because of the Doppler effect, if they’re coming up behind you the sound waves don’t get to you very much earlier than the vehicle itself does. I once heard a fire truck approaching, and when I looked in my rear view to see where it was it was less than a car length behind me. In any case, pipes that are loud enough to be heard blocks away are **LOUD** when they’re in the next lane over. Incomparably, ear-shatteringly, unnervingly, undesirably **LOUD**. The few situations where it might be helpful do not justify the 95% of the time you’re just making a god damned racket. Practice better riding to deal with that 5%; it ain’t hard to put yourself so the cars around you can see you. If you have to ride in their blind spot, you damn well better be aware they may turn in front of you. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/65 "2008-08-22T21:57:07Z")
[QUOTE=bdgr] And no you don’t go deaf from ridding motorcycles. I’ve been riding for over 25 years, I know people who have been riding for 50. None of us are deaf…seriously. Never met one person who is deaf from riding a motorcycle. ever. [/QUOTE] You’ve been extremely [lucky](http://news.ufl.edu/2004/09/01/motorcycle-noise/): > [@](#): > > In an informal survey of 33 motorcycles, UF audiologists at the College of Public Health and Health Professions have found **nearly half produced sounds above 100 decibels when throttled up** — equivalent in intensity to a loud rock concert or a chainsaw… > > The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health cautions that **exposure to noise at 100 decibels is safe for only 15 minutes. Permanent hearing loss can occur with prolonged exposure to any noise measuring 85 decibels or above.** > > “Almost all of the motorcycles we tested reached action-level noise, which in the workplace would require ear protection,” said Joy Colle, one of the study’s researchers. “ **The loudest bike we tested measured 119 decibels with the engine revved, and the recommended exposure time at that level is only 11 seconds.** Emphasis added. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/66 "2008-08-22T22:03:33Z")
You could make up some bumper stickers that say “LOUD PIPES MAKE MY BALLS FEEL BIG” and apply them to offending bikes. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/67 "2008-08-22T22:06:48Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] I guess it depends on whether or not you think this is a bad thing. Hell, even ambulances and fire trucks drive me nuts, because I can hear them but I can’t see them and I don’t know where the hell they are. And, again, because of the Doppler effect, if they’re coming up behind you the sound waves don’t get to you very much earlier than the vehicle itself does. I once heard a fire truck approaching, and when I looked in my rear view to see where it was it was less than a car length behind me. In any case, pipes that are loud enough to be heard blocks away are **LOUD** when they’re in the next lane over. Incomparably, ear-shatteringly, unnervingly, undesirably **LOUD**. The few situations where it might be helpful do not justify the 95% of the time you’re just making a god damned racket. Practice better riding to deal with that 5%; it ain’t hard to put yourself so the cars around you can see you; if you’re riding in their blind spot, you damn well better be aware they may turn in front of you. [/QUOTE] Well, that is a subject of debate. Here’s a few real world examples of what I’m talking about. I had just finished doing a carb job on a customers bike in Utah and he was driving to work. it was stock Suzuki 4 cyl, with stock exhaust and car driver turned in front of him approaching from the opposite direction. He left a wife and 4 kids. The driver said he didn’t hear or see the motorcycle. Now if he had a loud exhaust system the auto driver would have heard him, and would have looked…hopefully. We’re not talking about something fool proof here but something increase the odds for the rider. another mechanic friend of mine did a long stint in the hospital when a lady without insurance pulled off of a side street in front of him. he was riding a honda sport bike he was road testing for a customer. The lady pulled all the way out in front of him before she noticed there was a motorcycle even there, then stopped in a panic right in front of him. Her excuse was she didn’t even know he was there. Again, load pipes would have made her look. And I’ve know a lot of other nearly identical situations with friends and customers. as for if its a good thing or not? Well, I think it is. it isn’t the motorcycle coming up from behind, like was pointed out above. most bad motorcycle accidents are because of people who are looking right at the bike head on and still dont see it. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/68 "2008-08-22T22:07:47Z")
[QUOTE=bdgr] Did I insult you? Yeah it’s the pit, but that doesnt mean you can’t show some self control. [/QUOTE] I tend to get a bit on edge when people authoritatively spout so much incorrect information in a single post. And besides, you’re of the group that is being pitted. 😛 Don’t take it personal. Perhaps I should have said, “This statement is fucking moronic.” [QUOTE=Dinsdale] I must not have read the thread carefully enough, because I did not realize we were talking about trailers. I think the last time I pulled a trailer was 20 years ago. Many people seem to feel it is adequate to rely on mirrors along when backing a car/van out of a parking space into traffic. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] I mentioned the trailers as an aside, but I was imagining backing _into_ the parking space. [QUOTE=Bosstone] And, again, because of the Doppler effect, if they’re coming up behind you the sound waves don’t get to you very much earlier than the vehicle itself does. [/QUOTE] That’s not what the Doppler effect describes at all. Sound travels at about 750 miles an hour through air. If a bike is going, say, 50 miles an hour, the sound is still going 700 miles an hour faster than the biker. The Doppler effect describes the frequency shift, so the compressed waves will have a higher _frequency_ as they approach you, but their _speed_ will still be at least 600 miles an hour faster than the bike. Similarly, the waves will be longer as the object travels away from you, giving a lower frequency sound. > **[Doppler effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_effect)** > > The Doppler effect (also Doppler shift) is the change in the frequency or, equivalently, the period of a wave in relation to an observer who is moving relative to the source of the wave. It is named after the physicist Christian Doppler, who described the phenomenon in 1842. A common example of Doppler shift is the change of pitch heard when a vehicle approaches and recedes from an observer. Compared to the emitted sound, the received sound has a higher pitch during the approach, identic When the... ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/69 "2008-08-22T22:09:54Z")
Fair enough, I’ll shut up about it. :o ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/70 "2008-08-22T22:11:11Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] You’ve been extremely [lucky](http://news.ufl.edu/2004/09/01/motorcycle-noise/): Emphasis added. [/QUOTE] No, it’s not luck, its just that the noise levels that high don’t generally occur at the riders position but occur behind the bike. You can still hear it mind you, but those ear shattering engine noises aren’t as loud where the rider is sitting. Source: my DB meter. Even my BWM R80 would have been uncomfortably loud if you put your ear right behind the exhaust…and that was one quiet bike when Riding. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/71 "2008-08-22T22:14:35Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] I tend to get a bit on edge when people authoritatively spout so much incorrect information in a single post. [/quote] Except it wasn’t incorrect. > [@](#): > > And besides, you’re of the group that is being pitted. 😛 I’m not, in fact. I don’t currently ride a motorcycle with loud pipes. I’m speaking to the issue at hand. > [@](#): > > Don’t take it personal. I don’t, it just speaks volumes about your lack of character and real argument. > [@](#): > > Perhaps I should have said, "This statement is fucking moronic. You should have. It would have been incorrect, but it would definately been a more civil approach. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/72 "2008-08-22T22:29:07Z")
[QUOTE=bdgr] Well, that is a subject of debate. Here’s a few real world examples of what I’m talking about. [/QUOTE] The two anecdotes you provide are ifs. “Now if he had a loud exhaust system the auto driver would have heard him.” That’s nothing but speculation. If he had loud pipes, the driver might still not have noticed. He was inattentive enough not to see the bike, he may well have been inattentive enough not to hear it either. When I’m riding – or hell, just driving down the road in my car – I’m watching for hazards. I see a car in the left turn lane coming down the opposite direction, I’m eyeballing it until I’ve passed it. I don’t know if he’s going to swing out in front of me or not, so I want to be ready if he does. Again, pipes defer the responsibility of your safety onto other people. I’ve ridden as if I were invisible ever since I got my first car, and I’ve never gotten in an accident that I caused. (Even the ones I got into were still minor fender benders.) When you act as if you’re invisible, then any time someone does see you is simply a bonus and not something you have to count on. Sure, there’s times when something happens that you can’t avoid, but like as not you couldn’t avoid it in a car either. ETA: Okay, that’s not entirely true. Once I made a move thinking an oncoming car could see me. We missed each other by inches. I don’t do that any more. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/73 "2008-08-22T22:41:12Z")
[QUOTE=bdgr] No, it’s not luck, its just that the noise levels that high don’t generally occur at the riders position but occur behind the bike. You can still hear it mind you, but those ear shattering engine noises aren’t as loud where the rider is sitting. Source: my DB meter. [/QUOTE] Um, your dB meter sucks or you don’t know how to use it. Also, read the rest of my cite which I didn’t quote: > [@](#): > > In the UF survey, **noise levels were tested at riders’ ear levels** from stationary motorcycles when idle and throttled up. Formal research should include measurement of noise levels when the motorcycles are driven at cruising speeds to account for the effects of wind noise, Colle said. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/74 "2008-08-22T22:50:37Z")
Loud pipes are very useful in identifying which way and when the car should swerve when tryng to take out the asshole-flute. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/75 "2008-08-22T22:54:19Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] The two anecdotes you provide are ifs. “Now if he had a loud exhaust system the auto driver would have heard him.” That’s nothing but speculation. If he had loud pipes, the driver might still not have noticed. He was inattentive enough not to see the bike, he may well have been inattentive enough not to hear it either. [/quote] Sure. Like I said, it’s not a foolproof cure, just something to increase the odds in the riders favor. > [@](#): > > When I’m riding – or hell, just driving down the road in my car – I’m watching for hazards. I see a car in the left turn lane coming down the opposite direction, I’m eyeballing it until I’ve passed it. I don’t know if he’s going to swing out in front of me or not, so I want to be ready if he does. Absolutely. I always assume the other guy doesn’t see me. I’m the most paranoid rider in the world, and the only times I’ve ever been hit it’s been stopped at a light and hit from behind..(it’s happened twice). Neither time loud pipes would have made a difference. All I’m saying is that it gives you an added edge. in some situations. It’s not a excuse for poor riding. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/76 "2008-08-22T22:55:21Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Um, your dB meter sucks or you don’t know how to use it. Also, read the rest of my cite which I didn’t quote: [/QUOTE] Or I was doing a test on a different bike than they were. I do know how to use a DB meter, and it was functioning properly. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/77 "2008-08-22T23:00:17Z")
[QUOTE=bdgr] All I’m saying is that it gives you an added edge. in some situations. It’s not a excuse for poor riding. [/QUOTE] Fair enough. Now: is that added edge worth waking up a block’s worth of neighborhood at night, or disrupting them during the day? Is it worth putting adjacent drivers’ and your own hearing at risk? You may not have lost yours, but I don’t think the probability is debatable, especially given **QED** ’s link. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/78 "2008-08-22T23:01:23Z")
[QUOTE=bdgr] Or I was doing a test on a different bike than they were. I do know how to use a DB meter, and it was functioning properly. [/QUOTE] Ah, a unity sample size. How scientific. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/79 "2008-08-22T23:12:52Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] Fair enough. Now: is that added edge worth waking up a block’s worth of neighborhood at night, or disrupting them during the day? [/quote] I think that as long as you don’t go out of your way…like really reving the bike up going through a neighborhood at night…sure, I do. > [@](#): > > Is it worth putting adjacent drivers’ and your own hearing at risk? I don’t agree that this is the case. [/quote] You may not have lost yours, but I don’t think the probability is debatable, especially given **QED** ’s link. [/QUOTE] If you are running a bike that is putting out 120 db at the rider position…No, thats not a good idea at all. But most bikes don’t do that. My harley didn’t, and it was fairly loud…when I had it. My guzzi may have, and I put quieter exhaust on it because it was too loud. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886/80 "2008-08-22T23:15:59Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Ah, a unity sample size. How scientific. [/QUOTE] well…I had a fairly loud harley, I took a reading, and it was not nearly that high of a DB reading…not high enough to be a risk (it’s been a few years, I don’t remember the exact specs but not so loud as to require hearing protection.). Every other bike I’ve riden since then has been quieter by a good bit(my first guzzi was louder, but that was before I got the meter). So, No, we’re not talking a scientific sampling here but enough to know that if your cite is saying every bike is that loud they are testing the wrong kinds of bikes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loud-pipes-save-lives-my-ass/460886.md?page=5)