# Louie 8/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 12, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464 "2011-08-12T16:01:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/21 "2011-08-15T18:31:06Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > And with regards to her argument against premarital sex: > > 1. Pleasure delaying. Pointless, and does not require marriage in any case. If you want to go on a sex fast, you can do that without having to get married to break it. > [@](#): > > 1. Less shameful, because you know the person better. Assumes that unmarried sex is shameful, and assumes that you don’t know the person if you aren’t married. > [@](#): > > 1. The relationship is not about sex. Assumes that all unmarried relationships are only about sex. These are all terrible arguments, and all rooted in religious shame. I would have been out the door thirty seconds into that last speech. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/22 "2011-08-15T19:08:49Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > So you really don’t get why people say the show is “real”? Have you ever seen any other sitcoms? Sure, there’s a good amount of absurdity in _Louie_, and the masturbation episode may not be the best example, but even there, the fact that she didn’t end up being a hypocrite and sleeping with him distinguished it from what most other sitcoms would have done. And the second episode, “Eddie”, was definitely rooted in reality. The show tackles subjects in a truthful, adult manner, rather than relying on standard sitcom tropes. It seems so glaringly obvious to me, I’m somewhat baffled at your claims to the contrary. You obviously know what I’m talking about if you concede that the anti-masturbation episode is not the best example of the show being real. Why pretend otherwise? I enjoy the show, I think it’s clever and funny (if not very often laugh-out-loud funny). But I think it’s generally too fantastical to be “real.” Your consider it “real” that Louie didn’t end up fucking the woman in her hotel room, whereas other sitcoms would have. I consider it an utterly ridiculous situation in the first place, and so neither conclusion is more real than the other. But that’s OK! I realize most comedians, when they’re telling a joke or doing a bit, put it in the first person even if it’s just something they’ve concocted out of thin air, and I’ve got no problem envisioning Louie telling a joke about meeting this anit-masturbation crusader in that manner. But I’d take issue with anyone labeling such a story as “real,” because it ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/23 "2011-08-15T19:09:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Pointless, and does not require marriage in any case. If you want to go on a sex fast, you can do that without having to get married to break it. > > Assumes that unmarried sex is shameful, and assumes that you don’t know the person if you aren’t married. > > Assumes that all unmarried relationships are only about sex. > > These are all terrible arguments, and all rooted in religious shame. I would have been out the door thirty seconds into that last speech. I agree with all this - her reasons really weren’t compelling at all. I think people just appreciated that she wasn’t a hateful shrew, which would have been the easy way to go, sitcom-character-wise. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/24 "2011-08-15T19:41:03Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > You obviously know what I’m talking about if you concede that the anti-masturbation episode is not the best example of the show being real. Why pretend otherwise? I enjoy the show, I think it’s clever and funny (if not very often laugh-out-loud funny). But I think it’s generally too fantastical to be “real.” Your consider it “real” that Louie didn’t end up fucking the woman in her hotel room, whereas other sitcoms would have. I consider it an utterly ridiculous situation in the first place, and so neither conclusion is more real than the other. > > But that’s OK! I realize most comedians, when they’re telling a joke or doing a bit, put it in the first person even if it’s just something they’ve concocted out of thin air, and I’ve got no problem envisioning Louie telling a joke about meeting this anit-masturbation crusader in that manner. But I’d take issue with anyone labeling such a story as “real,” because it ain’t. That’s fine, but the original quote was how Louis CK was real, not this particular episode. And I think there’s plenty of realness on his show, and I’m comfortable arguing my case and citing examples if you disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/25 "2011-08-15T19:47:01Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > These are all terrible arguments, and all rooted in religious shame. I would have been out the door thirty seconds into that last speech. Can you make a better argument against premarital sex? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/26 "2011-08-15T20:08:55Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Can you make a better argument against premarital sex? I don’t believe there _is_ any good argument against premarital sex. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/27 "2011-08-15T20:35:11Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > That’s fine, but the original quote was how Louis CK was real, not this particular episode. And I think there’s plenty of realness on his show, and I’m comfortable arguing my case and citing examples if you disagree. I don’t really want to argue with you. I like your posts, you have excellent taste in TV shows, and I’m sure you could indeed come up with a dozen examples of how _Louie_ is real – and I’d agree with the bulk of your examples, I’m sure. I could probably also come up with a dozen examples of how the show is too silly to be real, but what’s the point? You think it’s real with some examples of absurdity, I think it’s absurd with some examples of reality, and we both think it’s funny. Why quibble? P.S. I’m totally on board with **DtC** and **Snarky** , though. I predict that anyone who found the woman’s arguments against masturbation persuasive will be in a cult inside a year. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/28 "2011-08-15T20:40:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t believe there _is_ any good argument against premarital sex. I think an argument can be good without being convincing, if it’s the best possible argument that can be made. Do you agree that some arguments against premarital sex are better than others? How would you describe those arguments? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/29 "2011-08-15T21:03:38Z")
I think they all fail to be the least bit convincing, so they’re kind of all the same to me. They all suffer from the same basically flawed premises. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/30 "2011-08-15T21:44:24Z")
The masturbation episode was humorous, but the “Eddie” episode had me riveted to the end. The writing and acting had a realistic and gritty feel and suggest that what Louie C.K. and Doug Stanhope portrayed was not that far from the truth for a lot of stand-ups. Two guys started off the same, but ending up at different career destinations. Great episode. Bravo. ---
**Author:** ![fusoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@fusoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fusoya)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/31 "2011-08-15T21:56:29Z")
I tried masturbating to that chick’s monologue. It was so hot. I love this show, but I notice that sometimes it really steps away from being funny, and just gets sad. The episode with Louie’s Aunt, and the one with Dane Cook are good examples…things just slowly happen, but I’m not hearing any jokes. Still though, it comes across as entertaining somehow. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/32 "2011-08-15T22:11:31Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > I don’t really want to argue with you. I like your posts, you have excellent taste in TV shows, and I’m sure you could indeed come up with a dozen examples of how _Louie_ is real – and I’d agree with the bulk of your examples, I’m sure. I could probably also come up with a dozen examples of how the show is too silly to be real, but what’s the point? You think it’s real with some examples of absurdity, I think it’s absurd with some examples of reality, and we both think it’s funny. Why quibble? > > P.S. I’m totally on board with **DtC** and **Snarky** , though. I predict that anyone who found the woman’s arguments against masturbation persuasive will be in a cult inside a year. Coo’. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/33 "2011-08-15T23:11:05Z")
I don’t think the woman’s arguments were supposed to be all _that_ great. I think the real point was the Louie seemed to approach the whole thing as a knee-jerk, lazy slam dunk and was totally off-guard to her earnestness, honesty, and compassion. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/34 "2011-08-15T23:43:04Z")
Agreed. Delaying sex for marriage makes as much sense to me as delaying eating good food until marriage. It simply does not make any sense no matter what. There is no possible justification. Who is the actress who played the earnest virgin? I found the second episode riveting, and one part in particular really struck a chord with me: “Tell me honestly, what do I have to live for?” “No, fuck you. I have my reasons to live and I worked hard to figure them out. I’m not going to just hand them to you.” I like that response. I think it shifts responsibility back to where it belongs quite nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/35 "2011-08-16T00:29:47Z")
Somehow the show manages to merge some amazingly thoughtful and provocative discussions like that with low brow dick and fart jokes without the tone seeming any different. I read that Louis CK writes and directs every episode himself - an extreme rarity for comics getting sitcom vehicles. He took a much smaller money deal on FX than he could have gotten elsewhere just to be able to auteur his show like this, and it’s paying off. It’s nice to see that kind of artistic integrity. Most of those guys just sell out immediately for any network piece of shit they can get. _Louie_ even commented on that this season in the episode where Louis is working on some crap network pilot, stops shooting in the middle to complain about how crappy it is and ends up leaving. The funniest meta moment of that, I though, was showing Bob Saget (who had been playing the buddy role) cheerfully stepping into the lead after Louis quits. Saget has no problem selling out for total shit. His shamelessness and lack of pretension about it is a kind of integrity in itself. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/36 "2011-08-16T01:39:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He took a much smaller money deal on FX than he could have gotten elsewhere just to be able to auteur his show like this, and it’s paying off. It’s nice to see that kind of artistic integrity. I’ve been thinking lately that Louie is one of the first shows that the term “auteur” really feels appropriate for. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/37 "2011-08-16T06:06:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > _Louie_ even commented on that this season in the episode where Louis is working on some crap network pilot, stops shooting in the middle to complain about how crappy it is and ends up leaving. Interestingly, he actually made a network sitcom previously (Lucky Louie), that to a high degree avoided these cliches. I (and Louie) both thought it was quite succesful regarding that. But I am sure he had to fight for that. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/38 "2011-08-16T13:07:38Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > Interestingly, he actually made a network sitcom previously (Lucky Louie), that to a high degree avoided these cliches. I (and Louie) both thought it was quite succesful regarding that. But I am sure he had to fight for that. That was on HBO, which hardly qualifies it as a network show. In many respects, HBO shows are the antithesis of network shows. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/39 "2011-08-16T14:04:28Z")
The only reason the christian lady might have appeared to make sense was because she was hot enough to almost be worth the wait. Everyone knows the crazy ones are the best in the sack too. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464/40 "2011-08-18T16:33:53Z")
I HATED LUCKY LOUIE. I love Louie. Go fig. I missed most of the first season of Louie because I hated Lucky Louie so. Anyhow… finally watched the Stanhope episode on my DVR last night. Wow. Didn’t pull any punches, and the last scene is a drunk man driving off in a car. Man. That’s about as far from “sitcom” as you can get. The masturbation episode didn’t quite “wow” me, but I think that might have been the best fart joke ever. And who knew “Red Eye” was still on the air apparently… that was supposed to be Fox News’ answer to the Daily Show. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/louie-8-11/592464.md?page=3)