# Love and Truth

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-and-truth/344273>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [February 13, 2006, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-and-truth/344273 "2006-02-13T14:56:51Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 3\
**Page:** 6

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**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\
**Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-and-truth/344273/101 "2006-02-20T11:52:40Z")

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> [@Liberal](#):
>
> Why does there have to be a where? Are you saying that if the universe did not exist, then neither could God?
> 
> Nonexistence and nothing are not the same. Existence is merely spatial temporality — space and time — and God is bounded by neither. The only reason we have existence at all is that the essence of goodness (edification) demands it.

If the only reason we have existence (I meaning everthing that exists), goodness or its essence would have to be a part of something that already exists. For something to have a essence, or be good, it would first have to be in existence.

If God is not in existence then your defination of God would be a non existent being.

The dictionary defines evistence as the state of fact or existing,continuance in being.all that exists,Something that exists;being.

Monavis

Monavis

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**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\
**Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-and-truth/344273/102 "2006-02-20T12:31:32Z")

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> [@monavis](#):
>
> If the only reason we have existence (I meaning everthing that exists), goodness or its essence would have to be a part of something that already exists. For something to have a essence, or be good, it would first have to be in existence.

It surprises me that you’re an existentialist. Most existentialists are atheists or new age pantheists. After all, the universe has always existed, and therefore God is not unique in that regard.

> [@](#):
>
> If God is not in existence then your defination of God would be a non existent being.

God exists because goodness compels His existence. There’s no other reason. His existence is necessary.

> [@](#):
>
> The dictionary defines evistence as the state of fact or existing,continuance in being.all that exists,Something that exists;being.

And so?

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**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-and-truth/344273/103 "2006-02-21T12:42:01Z")

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> [@Liberal](#):
>
> It surprises me that you’re an existentialist. Most existentialists are atheists or new age pantheists. After all, the universe has always existed, and therefore God is not unique in that regard.
> 
> God exists because goodness compels His existence. There’s no other reason. His existence is necessary.
> 
> And so?

How could he have goodness before he existed. Do I read you right that goodness came before God? You say his existence is necessary, then he is in existence, so you are saying he had a place to exist. What goodness created Him?

Monavis

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