# "Love" in action and victims of ex-gay brainwashing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 9, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531 "2005-06-09T00:41:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/41 "2005-06-09T13:14:50Z")
Okay, I’m sick of all the people saying, “Don’t hate the parents. They are just doing what they think is right for him.” Do you also feel the same about Andrea Yates? After all, when questioned about why she killed her children she said, “They didn’t do things God likes.” It doesn’t matter if they think they are doing “right”–lots of really, really sick, mentally ill people do things because they think it is “the right thing to do.” That doesn’t make it “okay”. What they are doing is sick and repugnant. I don’t care what their “excuse” for it is. They should be ashamed and do not deserve to be parents. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/42 "2005-06-09T13:25:57Z")
> [@evilbeth](#): > > Do you also feel the same about Andrea Yates? After all, when questioned about why she killed her children she said, “They didn’t do things God likes.” _IF_ Andrea Yates was truly so delusional that she believed she was doing the right thing, then yes, I’d feel the same way about her. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t matter if they think they are doing “right”–lots of really, really sick, mentally ill people do things because they think it is “the right thing to do.” That doesn’t make it “okay”. We’ll just have to agree to disagree there. I think that, when judging another person because of their actions, the intent of those actions matters a great deal. > [@](#): > > What they are doing is sick and repugnant. No shit. The issue isn’t whether what they’re doing is evil, it’s whether _they_ are evil. ---
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/43 "2005-06-09T13:29:54Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > _IF_ Andrea Yates was truly so delusional that she believed she was doing the right thing, then yes, I’d feel the same way about her. > > We’ll just have to agree to disagree there. I think that, when judging another person because of their actions, the intent of those actions matters a great deal. > > No shit. The issue isn’t whether what they’re doing is evil, it’s whether _they_ are evil. Well, IMO, the choice is either mentally ill or evil. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/44 "2005-06-09T13:38:13Z")
I don’t know if the parents are evil, but this program sure is, and no matter what their intentions, they are subjecting their son to a hideously abusive process. “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions” and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/45 "2005-06-09T14:07:09Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I don’t know if the parents are evil, but this program sure is, and no matter what their intentions, they are subjecting their son to a hideously abusive process. Agreed; I’d be (grudgningly)willing to give them the benefit of doubt about their actual _views_, but this is about the _exercising of them_ - they’re implementing their anti-gay agenda with far too much callous disregard and outright _glee_ for me to be able to call it anything other than _evil_. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/46 "2005-06-09T14:24:43Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Agreed; I’d be (grudgningly)willing to give them the benefit of doubt about their actual _views_, but this is about the _exercising of them_ - they’re implementing their anti-gay agenda with far too much callous disregard and outright _glee_ for me to be able to call it anything other than _evil_. Evil? Come on. If there are evil people, they are people serial killers and child molesters. This isn’t evil. It’s certainly wrong, misguided, etc., but evil seems a little harsh. ---
**Author:** ![EvilHamsterOnCrack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@EvilHamsterOnCrack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilHamsterOnCrack)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/47 "2005-06-09T14:37:43Z")
I got to post the 100th comment. Now imagine all the people who didn’t actually comment. This guy now has THOUSANDS of people behind him, to support him. A nice big fat letter writing/emailing/phone campaign to his parents might do something, eh? Dunno. Whatever, but what they’re doing is SICK! ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/48 "2005-06-09T14:46:36Z")
Can we send in the Mary Kay Commandos to bust these kids out? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/49 "2005-06-09T14:50:11Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Evil? Come on. If there are evil people, they are people serial killers and child molesters. This isn’t evil. It’s certainly wrong, misguided, etc., but evil seems a little harsh. Did you miss the bit where I clarified the difference I see between misguided and evil? Oh, I see you quoted it. ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/50 "2005-06-09T15:07:17Z")
But, I’m a Cheerleader! I agree with everyone here. I haven’t read all the rules, but I’ll be back to comment after I get to work. Poor kid. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/51 "2005-06-09T15:10:35Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Evil? Come on. If there are evil people, they are people serial killers and child molesters. This isn’t evil. It’s certainly wrong, misguided, etc., but evil seems a little harsh. They are evil according to the God they claim to worship: “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea” — Jesus (Matthew 18:6, NASB) ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/52 "2005-06-09T15:24:42Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > Not to mention my coding! :eek: Let he who is without typo cast the first flame. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/53 "2005-06-09T15:33:34Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Evil? Come on. If there are evil people, they are people serial killers and child molesters. This isn’t evil. It’s certainly wrong, misguided, etc., but evil seems a little harsh. Live through it and try to have that perspective. I dealt with a lesser amount of fire and brimstone from the warden of the uterine gulag I busted out of, but it still led to me disowning her. Being gay in a repressive area is one thing. Being gay in a repressive household is another. It’s never about the child to that type. Coleen’s response(the uterine warden) was to say “I guess this means I won’t ever have any grandchildren.” My coming out was now all about her and her percieved loss. I am willing to bet that this poor boy’s parents are more concerned about what people will think of them than any aspect of their boy’s spiritual development. To be the focus of such attention, condemnation, and bile is Hell. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/54 "2005-06-09T15:55:14Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > ‘_Refuge_’ My hairy ass! Is it wrong that I laughed at this for all the wrong reasons? Any port in a storm, eh? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/55 "2005-06-09T15:59:25Z")
OK, I’m a Christian Righty Homophobe who, if I had a kid who felt he/she were gay, would get the child & the whole family into Christ-centered psychotherapy. If I were a multi-millionaire, I would fund research into the causes & treatments of homosexual orientation & behavior. You all hate me now. I don’t care. I think these rules are freakin sick & de-humanizing in that they forbid the appropriate human & emotional contact needed for emotional health, Heck, if anything, these’ll drive the kids deeper into whatever they don’t want. Btw, I taped “But I’m A Cheerleader” for my gay gal pal (she doesn’t like the word lesbian) and thoroughly enjoyed it & made fun of the Camp Lady along with her. So I’m not totally beyond hope. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/56 "2005-06-09T16:01:53Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Evil? Come on. If there are evil people, they are people serial killers and child molesters. This isn’t evil. It’s certainly wrong, misguided, etc., but evil seems a little harsh. Who commits an evil act, and actually believes what they are doing is evil? Even the most depraved of murderers usually has a rationale that excuses their actions, at least in their own mind. It’s results that matter, not intentions, and the results here are simply evil. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/57 "2005-06-09T16:12:40Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > OK, I’m a Christian Righty Homophobe who, if I had a kid who felt he/she were gay, would get the child & the whole family into Christ-centered psychotherapy. If I were a multi-millionaire, I would fund research into the causes & treatments of homosexual orientation & behavior. > > You all hate me now. I don’t care. I certainly don’t hate you, but if you’ll bear with me, I have a few questions. They are sincere, even though they might sound weird to you. What if your kid were straight and had, say, a toe fetish? Would you still be alarmed? And would a toe fetish be better than, say, a shoe fetish (human versus inanimate)? I guess what I’m asking is whether there some standard deviation from the mean that you would tolerate. If he spilled his see through oral sex, for example, would he need therapy? What if he liked fat women? Or bondage, but with women? Is being an ass man worse than being a breast man? What if he had anal sex, but with his wife? Finally, if your kid were gay, would it be better for him from his perspective if he just lied to you until he turned eighteen? Would he be better off making friends outside the house, with whom he can be himself? ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/58 "2005-06-09T16:15:38Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > OK, I’m a Christian Righty Homophobe who, if I had a kid who felt he/she were gay, would get the child & the whole family into Christ-centered psychotherapy. If I were a multi-millionaire, I would fund research into the causes & treatments of homosexual orientation & behavior. May you be broke as long as you live. ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/59 "2005-06-09T16:16:02Z")
This just makes me completely sick. I have read what this kid has written and it just breaks my heart. I hope that the moment they let this kid go, he gets as far away from his “parents” as he can get and never looks back. Places like this should be illegal. Treating a kid like this should be illegal. He hasn’t broken any laws. Why on earth should he be allowed to be held by these brain washers against his will? If he had told his parents that he wanted to try to change himself (something I don’t think is possible), that would be one thing. But to place him here against his will when his only mistake was that he was honest with the people that he thought loved him, is truly despicable. My heart breaks for all of the poor kids that are being forced to be there. If there is a god, they will be ok and their parents will suffer eternal damnation. Not that I actually believe that there is a god, but if there is one thing I would like to believe is that the parents and the people that run this place pay for this injustice. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531/60 "2005-06-09T16:31:08Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > So I’m not totally beyond hope. No, just a hypocrite. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-in-action-and-victims-of-ex-gay-brainwashing/307531.md?page=4)