Well, if you can’t trust the Tenessee DCS, who can you trust?
Sorry, bacon. I still say its evil.
If you’ll notice, upthread I indicated a distinct lack of confidence in the state of TN to properly investigate the matter. TN DCS doesn’t quite have the rep of Florida’s (“Over 60 children misplaced this week!”), but having heard the horror stories from people who’ve had to deal with them, and knowing a few people who work for TN DCS, I can say that I have zero faith that the investigation was conducted properly.
Abuse doesn’t have to be physical in order to be abuse.
No, it is not arbitrary. Anyone who bases his moral code, much less his spirituality, on an arbitrary set of rules is a simpleton at best, a heretic at worst. You claim that the Bible clearly condemns homosexuality; I disagree. But what is not up for disagreement is that the Bible does clearly condemn those who follow the practices of Christianity without truly believing, feeling, knowing, and understanding their meaning and purpose.
A person can simply not believe something that makes no sense to him. You and others like to dismiss this as “pick-and-choose” or “explaining away” religious laws for our own convenience. Wrong. This is based on the understanding that the Bible is not a legal document with some arbitrary set of laws around which we must find loopholes; it is a guide to help people understand their relationship with each other, with God, and with God’s creation. It’s not presuming to take the role of God and “choose” what’s a sin and what isn’t; it’s presuming to use the brain and capacity for understanding that God has given us and make sense of the world and our roles in it.
If the only reason you don’t cheat on your spouse is that you’re afraid you’ll get caught, then you’re not really in love. If the only reason you don’t kill other people is because the Bible says it’s wrong, then you don’t really value human life. If you believe in God and believe that something is sinful and an abomination against God, but you continue to do it, then you don’t really have respect for God.
Even if you live an absolutely sin-free life, but do so not out of understanding but out of fear of a vengeful and capricious God with a set of arbitrary rules, then you have not truly understood the purpose of your existence and why it’s good that you abstained from sin, meaning that you’ve wasted your time on earth. And that’s an abomination against God’s creation, and that’s a sin.
Anyone who claims that homosexuality is inherently sinful, and cannot explain why it is, why God would make this condemnation on the act itself, doesn’t have a moral leg to stand on. They are hiding their own prejudices underneath a religious debate. And that’s a sin.
Unfortunately, for those of us who believe, the fate of our souls and our relationship with God isn’t all about finding the simple way out. For those who believe in a strict interpretation of the bible, finding societal and historical contexts and differing linguistic interpretations are useful.
But that’s not the only basis for saying that homosexuality isn’t inherently a sin. The basis is looking at interpretation after interpretation after interpretation that repeatedly promotes love, respect, and understanding, and condemns lust, carnality, promiscuity, dishonesty, and disrespect. The belief that human beings are more than their genitalia, and that true love between people is more than lust, isn’t politically correct; it’s just correct.
The idea that it’s nothing more than an arbitrary set of rules isn’t just insufferably smug, it’s why the whole “issue” has been allowed to pose as a religious debate for so long, and even why camps like the one in the OP exist. It’s looking for rules instead of understanding, looking to shape and mold people instead of genuinely helping them. Anyone who claims to “believe” in something but is unable to explain why he believes it, deserves no respect.
Well put, Sol!
JOhn.
Isn’t it interesting how some people think they can dodge responsibility for the content of their minds?
None of us is born with any beliefs; we all have to learn and evolve and consciously choose the ideas that we accept, and the ideas that we reject. It doesn’t matter whether your beliefs are part of an organized belief system or whether you simply find truth wherever you may find it, there are no beliefs in your mind that got there without your consent.
If you choose to uncritically believe every single word of the Bible (or any other book), you are responsible for those beliefs as if you had thought them up yourself. I have zero tolerance with people who say, “I believe homosexuality is a sin, because it’s in the Bible, and who am I to disagree with the Bible?”
This is irrationality. This is ignorance. This is hatred and meanness and intolerance. And you’ve allowed it to be a part of you. You’ve freely chosen this belief, and you cannot dodge responsibility for it. If you choose to accept bigotry, you are a bigot, period.
“The unforgivable sin”? The greatest sin is to turn your mind over to a “higher” authority, and allow that authority to dictate what’s true and what’s right and what’s ethical. **You have the right to believe what makes sense to you, and to reject beliefs that don’t make sense to you, regardless of the source of these beliefs. **But no matter what you choose to believe, the one thing you can’t escape is responsibility for that choice.
Point of clarification: there are plenty of beliefs which got into my head without my consent.
They do not remain there without my consent.
Carry on.
Assuming that a former “client” isn’t making this up, LIA may very well be using techniques which had been applied in the past within similar groups:
http://www.straightkids.com/page5.html
http://www.straightkids.com/page4.html
It’s hard to believe that the similarities are merely coincidental.
**To read it, just keep your finger on your mouse button as you scroll down so it will highlight in blue.
**The documentary film trailers don’t appear to be working yet.
An update…He’s still in the camp, but the camp is still under investigation:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/po/20050716/co_po/dadofboyinexgaycampspeaksout
I was just coming to post that link.
God, what a bunch of fucking douchebags. Hey, Dad? Go fuck yourself.
I know it’s a little late to the party, but I’d just like to say that panache45’s post was beautiful and I agree 100%.
Some Memphis filmmakers are doing a documentary on this whole thing. From what I’m hearing, it sounds like it’ll be very good.
Yes, but for something completely different than what many of you guys were claiming was going on there. As I posted before, the allegations of child abuse are unfounded. As the article states:
They are under investigation in order to determine whether they need to be licensed as a mental health provider. That is not what many of you claimed was the problem in this thread. You guys said there was child abuse going on, you were wrong. Live with it.
It’s also funny to me that nobody mentioned what “Alex Polotsky, of the Memphis-based Queer Action Coalition, which organized protests against LIA and served as liaison between Zach, his friends, his family and reporters,” said. The man, who is a obvious advocate for gay rights, stated the following:
Funny, that’s the same thing I said. I guess Polotsky is a queer hating jerk like I am for giving the parents the benefit of the doubt. The only difference between his opinion and mine is that he thinks the dad shouldn’t have spoken out.
I can understand the outrage, but acting like a lunatic will not help you prove your point. I hope you guys can realize that doing so is counter productive.
Is ot just me, or is the above just a pile of two-faced double talk?
Why aren’t they regulated, and why would it be OK for unqualified, untrained people to meddle with minds?
Sorry, something still isn’t quite right.
Steve: Apparently, a facility that is “faith-based” doesn’t need a license:
http://www.exgaywatch.com/blog/archives/2005/07/new_investigati.html
…but of course there’s more to it.
That’s one hell of a big loophole!!! :eek:
Oh, great. Now every other teenager in his community knows who he is and that he’s gay. Dunno how many, if any, knew before, but they all know now for damned sure.
I wonder how long he’ll last at school before a gang of homophobic thugs corner him and try to beat the gay out of him. I wonder how much protection the authorities will bother to give him. I wonder if he’ll wait till he’s 18 before he hauls ass outta there. Assuming he survives that long.
Way to go, loving Dad!
I am at a loss as to how to imagine that a place like this isn’t abusive – maybe not physically, but it sure as hell is mentally and emotionally.
Today’s New York Times also has a story about this.
(Free registratioln probably required).
So, is this part of the oppression of Christianity we’ve been hearing so much about?
Well you can take some comfort in this: I am very familiar with White Station, and I know they have a rather large group of kids that are out. Several students there go to church youth group with my daughter and they probably make up at least a third of MAGY.
Still I suppose there’s always a chance. Dad certainly didn’t help matters, I don’t think.