And what? Prada is okay? :rolleyes:
While you’re at it, I’ve got a bridge for sale…
A few years ago my classmate Darryl came out to his parents. They wanted to send him to something like this under punishment of disownment. He killed himself a few days later.
In the student union they had a card thing up to send condolences to his parents and it took every ounce of strength I had not to write, “I hope you’re happy that you killed your son.”
He should have been with the rest of us at graduation.
More and more of these camps are being sent overseas because they’re being prosecuted for child abuse. They are disgusting, vile institutions that have no place on this earth.
FriarTed
If you’re still around, I really would appreciate your responses to my questions. I know that pile-ons are unpleasant, but I do not join with others in thinking you’re a hypocrite or anything. (Well, at least not yet.) I’m honestly just trying to understand your reasoning.
Do you have a cite for that?
Well, lots of people. Crimes are often comitted in the heat of passion, when emotion trumps moral restraint. And even if you look at premeditated acts, people still know what they’re doing is wrong–they just do it anyways, for whatever reason. In fact, given that our legal system treats people who can’t tell right from wrong differently from those who can, and that those who can are the overwhelming majority of criminals, you could argue that lots and lots and lots of people believe what they’re doing is evil, but do it anyways.
It’s entirely plausible that the parents in this case believe they’re doing the right thing; that keeping their son from performing homosexual acts will get him into heaven and save his eternal soul.
I think they (and FriarTed) are wrong, and are causing/would cause great harm, but I don’t think they’re bad people.
I especially like the motto “Finding freedom in Jesus Christ”.
There was a thread here a while back about a camp down south somewhere (in the Caribbean?) that isolated and tried to brainwash kids in this way.
I’m not sure what to search on, though.
I’ll just take your word on that. But the fact that there are Christian camps all over the world does not equate to the claim that more and more of them are heading oversees and being prosecuted for child abuse. There have always been Christian camps all over the world I was looking for something to back up the claim that there are increasing instances of actual prosecutions combined with emigration.
Fair point, Metacom. Still, there are a lot of people out there doing pretty evil things in the surety that they’re performing good deeds. Most racists, it seems, are pretty self-righteous about their racism. Most homophobes too. If some guy burns down a synagogue because he thinks he’s protecting the white race from the international Jewish banking conspiracy, is he any less evil? I don’t think so, but I’ve got a very results-oriented morality.
I never thought, until now, that anyone could abuse the term “freedom” and strip it of all its meaning more than George W. Bush.
They probably also said he killed himself because he was gay. :mad:
Just because it’s not murder or rape doesn’t mean it’s not evil. The ONLY thing I could grant is that these people are acting out of ignorance rather than outright malice. But it’s still evil and cruel. Did you even see the list Zach had on his blog?
(As for never having grandchildren, there are gay parents out there. Surrogates, artificial insemination, adoption, etc. Jesus).
Nope- confused, conflicted, self-contradictory I may be. A hypocrite I am not.
If I were a hypocrite, I would pretend that no contradictions existed in my attitudes & behavior. A hyprocrite literally is a playactor.
Learn the meanings of epithets before you use them.
None of the other stuff you mentioned has been condemned in Judaic & Christian scripture. I believe that Paul was speaking for God/Jesus in Romans 1 & I Corinthians 6, that he was indeed referring to all homosexual sex acts- not rape, pederasty or cultic sex acts, and that one can deal with such desires through commitment to Jesus. I don’t believe guaranteed cures or deliverance or reorientation is possible for everyone, but I believe every rational & sane person can control their sexual behavior.
Btw, I’ve read the pro-gay responses to the Paulian passages, I’ve honestly looked to see if the historical Christian position might be misinterpreting them.
I have yet to be convinced. I would like to be convinced. I have gay friends whom I would love to be able to tell “It’s OK- the Bible does not condemn gay sex. Keep it in a committed relationship & go on to trust Jesus.” But I can’t be honest to my belief in the Bible & say that.
And like I said before, the ideas behind this camp are awful. Don’t train the family in showing proper affection & warmth. Don’t allow proper affection & warmth between kids. Just repress, repress, repress. Hell, if that’s not a recipe for disaster, I don’t know what is.
How is would the programs you would fund, if you were a millionaire, be any different? What happens when your programs (inevitably) fail? And how many failures would it take for you to stop wasting your money?
I’m guessing that’s freedom from, not freedom of. :rolleyes:
Evil is as evil does. What these blindly misguided people are doing is evil, and if they bothered to think about the regime they’re imposing on their child, they’d know that.
So:
They haven’t thought about it, which is evil of neglect, leading to great risk of grievous emotional harm to their child,
- or -
They don’t care about the regime, so long as they get results, which is the evil of indifference to the great risk of grievous emotional harm to their child, - or -
They have thought about it, and intend the regime they’re imposing, which is the evil of intention of great risk of grievous emotional harm to their child.
A pox and a plague upon these parents, and may they know no rest in this world until such time as they come to accept their child as he is.
I’m glad to see that you are trying to educate and inform yourself. Many Christians I know seem to be happy enough with, “because my pastor said so.”
My next question to you would be: Is the Bible really the correctly translated Word of God? (Even when I was a believer, I had grave doubts about that one.)
**Friar[/b[,
There is no such thing as “Christ centered (or any other religiously based) psychotherapy.” Clinical psychology strives to be as empirical and objective as possible and that means it cannot be polluted by a priori religious beliefs or assumptions. The idea that homosexuality requires treatment is completely at odds with the medical community. Religious indoctrination is not psychotherapy.
Incidentally, do you believe that teenagers have a right to free practice of religion? Do they have a right not to follow the beliefs of their parents? If your teenage son told you he didn’t believe in Jesus would you try to force him to believe against his will?