The contact info for love in Action is at the bottom of the page
http://www.loveinaction.org/
Just scroll down.
Whoops, and forgot to mention. They also clearly show they are part of an umbrella organization called http://www.exodus-international.org/ . Just reading what’s on that site makes me sick, but THAT is the head of the snake.
Did I mention yet that two of Exodus’ founders, Michael Bussee and Gary Cooper, gave up on the notion, divorced their wifes, and became partners?
Okay, so I did. 
I just like to reiterate that point. In case anyone thinks these programs work.
Ave Maria was Schubert.
Still, the banning of Bach confused me too and probably shows the ignorance of those camp people. Back wrote church music. He was probably the greatest composer of sacred music who ever lived.
For that matter, Beethoven and Mozart were both devout christians who wrote plenty of faith centered music of their own. The theme from Beethoven’s “Ode to Joy” is based on a Christian hymn and the entire Ninth Symphony. like Beethoven himself, was profoundly religious in nature.
These people are idiots.
No one is deliberately misunderstanding you. If you didn’t mean this person might not be gay, you should have phrased it differently than “how do we know he’s gay?” Fairly easy to misconstrue that question as suspicions the person in question is not, in fact, homosexual. But instead of saying “alright, I missed that part in the blog, he is gay.” or something to the affect of acknowledging his homosexuality, you come back with “good for him.” ?
People are elevating this to the level of spiteful because it is spiteful to lock a child in a room for three days and not allow him any contact, even eye contact with another person for three days. Destructive, because, well…it is. It is destructive to manipulate a person in a vulnerable position and cause them to feel insecure about who they are and to repeatedly inform them they will spend eternity in a “bad place” if they do not change who they are at a basic level. It destroys the spirit and the will. Do you not agree that’s destructive? Evil? Yes. It is evil, because these people take enjoyment from doing this to other human beings. That’s torture. I don’t care whose name you do it in.
Who are we to second guess this guy? I think it would be common courtesy to take his own statments about his sexuality at face value.
Do you think they know that Jesus probably had a beard?
Evidently he did. The arrangement of the tune most familiar to us, of course, is attributed to Charles Gounod.
I think these camps should be forcibly closed, and the “operators” should face criminal charges for unlawful detainment, false imprisionment, mental cruelty, and any other damn thing that can be brought up. These people are quacks and charlatans. They are using the name of A’mighty Gawd to bilk stupid people out of their money and emotionally scar young people who may already have enough baggage from their stupid parents. As to the “argument” that the parents and these “operators” are acting in good faith, BULLSHIT. There is no good faith here, just ignorance, bigotry, stupidity and greed. The results are the proof, as Mohammed said. If you have a kid, and the kid is talking suicide, maybe it’s time to listen to him/her. Fuck anyone who refuses to see it. Double fuck the leeches and parasites that mentally abuse them just to make a buck.
Actions will be judged according to their results - Mohammad
The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness is like a villain with a smiling cheek, a goodly apple rotten at the heart. O what a goodly outside falsehood hath! - William Shakespeare
A certain sense of cruelty towards oneself and others is Christian; hatred of those who think differently; the will to persecute. Hatred of mind, of pride, courage, freedom, libertinage of mind, is Christian; hatred of the sense, of the joy of the senses, of joy in general is Christian. – Friedrich Nietzsche
“Defame not the good name of God with your profane Christian rantings!” - Eldridge Kane [Irish Theologian]{1836}
“I challenge anyone to present to me a more disingenuous religion than Christianity. Just where in hell do we find a system bent on filching scandulous amounts of money off the weak-minded? Where do we find more wealthy Pastors or Ministers talking out of both sides of their mouths while their pockets swell to obseen proportions? What religion does more to intellectually damage youth while getting rich off their ignorance?” - C. Spellman
The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity. - John Adams
The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooist brutality, is patently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with the dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will soon find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes. -John Adams
“They make ready their tongue like a bow, to shoot lies; it is not by truth that they triumph in the land.” Jeremiah 9:3
It is not so much what you believe in that matters, as the way in which you believe it and proceed to translate that belief into action. - Lin Yutang
“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it with religious conviction.” - Blaise Pascal
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Stop there.
See what I mean?
If there is a God who will damn his children forever, I would rather go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an infamous tyrant. I make my choice now. I despise that doctrine. It has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men. It has been a constant pain, a perpetual terror to every good man and woman and child. It has filled the good with horror and with fear; but it has had no effect upon the infamous and base. It has wrung the hearts of the tender, it has furrowed the cheeks of the good. This doctrine never should be preached again. What right have you, sir, Mr. clergyman, you, minister of the gospel to stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and fill the future with horror and with fear? I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena. – Robert G. Ingersoll
Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. – C.S. Lewis
“Whatever religious people may say about their love of God or the mandates of their religion, when their behavior toward others is violent and destructive, when it causes suffering among their neighbors, you can be sure the religion has been corrupted and reform is desperately needed.” - Charles Kimball, Baptist minister
My apologies, everyone. I have to withdraw this statement since I was confusing the horror stories of ex-gay camps with deliquient teen boot camps, some of which are being sent overseas.
Bach wrote a version too. Schubert’s is better, and it’s the famous one.
I don’t get it.
Just an urban legend. Based on my posts in this thread, you know I’m totally against this camp and everything related to it, but I actually researched this, and as we are in the dope (fighting ignorance, etc.) I think it fair that I should let you know. Michael Busse did organize the first meeting, which led to the creator of Exodus, which I guess makes him a founder, but Gary Cooper just worked in one of the Exodus Centers, he wasn’t actually a founder at all. They did however, divorce their wives, became partners, but one of them (forgot which) apparently slept around, got AIDS and died. :-x Unless of course those sources I read were just part of the propaganda, but it didn’t seem that way.
Just a WAG, but I think he means claiming that these camps have anything but a zero % success rate is an ignorant stance.
The most appropriate biblical passage about this camp:
“Jesus wept.”
I’m aware of that, but there are several “Ave Marias”, and one I found was labelled Bach.
Ah. I found it. Charles Gounod added the words and melody to Bach’s first prelude from Well-Tempered Clavier, producing one of the “Ave Marias.”
Other versions include ones by Verdi and Dvorak.
Okay, carry on.
Are you implying that you approve of these methods if they actually work? There’s nothing “good” about removing a child’s individuality and uniqueness. If they are at all “successful” in this, they’ve reached an even lower level of evil than if they fail.
And I don’t give a rat’s ass whether the parents are doing this out of love or devotion or peer pressure. Homophobia is wrong, period.
Sorry, I missed the indefeinite article in your question. You asked if Bach wrote an Ave Maria and I read it as “didn’t bach write Ave Maria?” I assumed you meant the famous one. My mistake for not reading closely enough.
Bach also wrote a number of masses as well as tunes with titles like “Jesu, Joy of man’s Desiring.” He was as devout as it got and I doubt it would have crossed his mind to think of his music as anything but devotional.
You’re entitled to your opinion, but to claim that these camps don’t “work” for any of the people that go is ignorant. I’m sure they don’t have the success rate that they claim, but I will bet everything I own that it’s helped some people.
Oh stop. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this kid gonna be at this camp for roughly two weeks? Two fucking weeks! It’s not the end of the world. It’s not torture. He can suck it up and deal with two weeks of listening to these fucking wackos, nod his head, quote some Bible verses, then go back to being himself. The fact you guys want to make fun of how the women who run the camp look and call his parents evil is pathetic. Why spew the same venom you feel his parents are? I understand the need to vent, but this goes beyond venting. You guys need to calm down and not overstate the situation.
Yes, I’m sure he will be in for 14 days of hearing about how homosexuality is wrong, sinful, etc. I understand how damaging that may be, but he knows what’s right and what’s wrong.