# Love the Christian, hate Christianity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2000, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486 "2000-12-07T15:59:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/41 "2000-12-07T19:11:02Z")
**Gaudere** …Two Black Eyes? [deletes punchline] My all time favorite, piss people off joke. Hey, we are arguing against one set of morality from another set of morality. People in glass houses and all. Hate Christianity but love the Christian? This is so plausible that I see it as self-evident. Most “Christians” I’ve run up against have read less of the bible than I have. They are word-of-mouth Christians. Its easy to hate their religion but not them because they aren’t really that religion. Then you’ve got the types who have read a decent portion of some part of the bible (most likely TNT, much more exciting IMO than the OT) and can be called Christian. However, in this case, you like a person _who happens to be christian._ Very likely they’ve formed their own opinions from the bible and don’t necessarily hate you for anything. For the rest of the ones who hate you, go ahead and hate them back. Or hit on them 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/42 "2000-12-07T19:31:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Except that nobody said that here, did they? It was an analogy. I like analogies; I find they can be useful for clearing things up by showing a different perspective. Maybe not, though. 🙂 > [@](#): > > I didn’t think it was funny; I thought it was offensive – _for precisely the same reasons you thought the same statement would be offensive if it dealt with homosexuals._ Oh, OK, you found it offensive because you thought Eve was being serious. I knew it was sarcastic, so it was not offensive to me, no matter what the heck you substitute; even if it dealt with homosexuals. Heck, Esprix has said “love the homosexual, as long as they don’t do homosexual acts”, and I in no wise find it offensive towards homosexuals–it’s all in how the statement is meant. However, your first post confused me, because it seemed to say that you found Eve’s post offensive. Since her post was sarcastic, I couldn’t see where the offense came from. You said you had understood it in your second post, which I took to mean that you knew she was not serious. Therefore, your posting as if she had _meant_ offense and had been serious baffled me, and I asked for clarfication. If I now understand you correctly, at the time she posted it you thought she was serious. Therefore, you posted a parody of her post, not realizing Eve’s original post was a parody. Your later posts defending your remark were saying that at the time you found it offensive, but now that you realize it is sarcastic, it is no more offensive or seriously-meant than your “Jew” post was. Is this correct? > [@](#): > > Well, yes. To Christians. Obviously. Um, no, it would be offense directed at the ridiculousness of believing that _anyone_ should stay with their own kind and not with “decent people”. A: “Those faggots better stay with others of their kind and stay away from decent people.” B (sarcastically): “Yeah, and those Christians better stay with others of their kind and stay away from decent people.” Why would you think B intended offense to Christians? B could use any other group as an example, but it is more effective to use as an example the group that the person currently belongs to. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/43 "2000-12-07T19:33:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Gaudere…Two Black Eyes? [deletes punchline] > My all time favorite, piss people off joke. It’s a good one. 😃 You have to be very very careful about the sence of humor of the person you tell it to, though, or you’ll end up with two black eyes of your own! ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/44 "2000-12-07T19:41:28Z")
Dammit Gaudere, tell us the damn joke! Or email it, you’re driving me nuts! ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/45 "2000-12-07T19:50:09Z")
Okay – I can’t stand it anymore. Somebody email m the puchline before I go insane. [sub]what do you mean, “too late?” Why I oughta. . . [/sub ---
**Author:** ![Navigator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4af34b/32.png) [@Navigator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Navigator)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/46 "2000-12-07T19:54:39Z")
> [@](#): > > B (sarcastically): “Yeah, and those Christians better stay with others of their kind and stay away from decent people.” Herein lies the anti-Great Commission. 😉 We’re pretty much told to go forth and talk to all the decent people… ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/47 "2000-12-07T20:02:41Z")
Oh, for goodness sake, will everyone please just pretend I never said anything, and go back to the OP? —Eve [muttering darkly to herself that she is never going to enter a “serious” thread again] ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/48 "2000-12-07T20:02:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, OK, you found it offensive because you thought Eve was being serious. I have already said that I knew Eve was being sarcastic, or did you miss that? Or are you of the opinion that if something is lightly said it cannot be offensive? You must find jokes about niggers and kikes to be hysterical. Hey, they’re just _jokes_, right? Apparently, the answer to “can we just drop it” is “No.” Alrighty. You go right ahead and belabor whatever point it is you imagine you’re making, but as far as I’m concerned this discussion is over. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/49 "2000-12-07T20:17:42Z")
::: sees imminent catfight between two of the finest ladies on the board, tries to head it off :::: > [@](#): > > Being a sarcastic person is fine, as long as you don’t indulge in any actual sarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/50 "2000-12-07T20:20:26Z")
Well, maybe I didn’t say it right. But what I meant to say is that it seems to me that Goboy wants to do away with believing there is a Supreme Being because he hasn’t seen proof of it. I did think that was arrogant but hopefully he was just kidding. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/51 "2000-12-07T20:25:50Z")
That sounds about like it, Poly. ::shrug:: I was honestly not trying to ride Jodi’s ass, I just didn’t understand what was so offensive about a remark that she knew was not meant seriously. I do understand that some things are considered so offensive that some people believe you can never say them, not even sarcastically–i.e., you can’t make fun of someone who doesn’t want “fags” in the military by saying “yeah, let’s not have those niggers in there either!” because the word “nigger” is so greivously offensive you can never ever say it, not even to make fun of another’s bigotry. (I personally think intent matters hugely, and would not find the example above offensive.) But I didn’t think Eve’s comment was one of them–if she _had_ substituted “Jew” or “atheist” I would not have found it offensive either. So I was confused. Thank you for clarfiying, Jodi. [sub]But I’m certainly never going to tell you the Two Black Eyes joke, EVER![/sub] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/52 "2000-12-07T20:26:04Z")
You asked for it…[mails joke] ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/53 "2000-12-07T20:43:17Z")
EVE, as God is my witness I tried. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/54 "2000-12-07T20:49:54Z")
What pissed me off about Christians is the way they debase and deride any other faith that is not theirs. The Goddess Hecate, whom I worship is far older than any recorded worship of the Christian God. It has been proven in different scholarly and archeological texts like “Hekate in Ancient Greek Religion” by Von Rudloff. Yet, not only do I get patronized by Christians who either think I worship Satan in disguise, I have to suffer the fact that they took all the pagan holidays and co-opted them. Then the Christians won’t leave me alone and must attempt to convert me at work, at school, and in my very own HOME. They don’t choose to pay attention to the sign that says very clearly: NO PROSELETYZING. No, they knock on the door and wake me or leave copies of the Watchtower. The arrogance of some Christians is amazing. Let’s bring back the oldest game: Christians vs. the Lions. I’ll bring the lions, you bring the Christians. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/55 "2000-12-07T20:59:27Z")
Now, now hastur, we all know that ALL Christians most certianly do not do this. Vocally. Lions vs Christians again, eh? I dunno, remakes never quite capture the beauty of the original. 😃 Then de we get the sequal to the Inquisition, too? Or the Crusades (which some feel have never ended)? I’d personally love to see a live enactment of the resurrection. Hell, I might stop being an atheist in light of the last one. I’m all for it, now. This could be exciting. [sub]everything above is a parody of pure thought[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/56 "2000-12-07T21:01:47Z")
“Let’s bring back the oldest game: Christians vs. the Lions. I’ll bring the lions, you bring the Christians.” —Phew! Thanks for gettin’ 'em off MY back, Hastur! ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/57 "2000-12-07T21:03:53Z")
HASTUR: > [@](#): > > What pissed me off about Christians is the way they debase and deride any other faith that is not theirs. So rather than look at the question of whether it’s appropriate to generalize all Christians from the actions of a few, you guys are all just going to post more generalizations? This advances the discussion how? > [@](#): > > The Goddess Hecate, whom I worship is far older than any recorded worship of the Christian God. It has been proven in different scholarly and archeological texts like > “Hekate in Ancient Greek Religion” by Von Rudloff. So? People have been discriminating against gays since the dawn of time; are you saying that age makes right? > [@](#): > > Yet, not only do I get patronized by Christians who either think I worship Satan in disguise, I have to suffer the fact that they took all the pagan holidays and co-opted them. Not all Christians think you worship Satan. Lots would be willing to take at face value your representations of who you worship. > [@](#): > > Then the Christians won’t leave me alone and must attempt to convert me at work, at school, and in my very own HOME. Ever had a Methodist come knock on your door and try to convert you? How about a Presbyterian? Lutheran? Catholic? Congregationalist? Unitarian? Episcopalian? > [@](#): > > They don’t choose to pay attention to the sign that says very clearly: NO PROSELETYZING. Then they’re not very smart, are they? > [@](#): > > No, they knock on the door and wake me or leave copies of the Watchtower. Ah, so we’re talking about Jehovah’s Witness, who’s faith _does_ mandate proseletyzing, and not the many other denominations whose faiths do not. > [@](#): > > The arrogance of some Christians is amazing. But, of course, the operative word there is “some.” ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/58 "2000-12-07T21:19:47Z")
BTW, I am reading this thread, but don’t have time to respond at the moment. Lots of good points being raised. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/59 "2000-12-07T21:22:40Z")
Yes, I was generalizing to a point. I have had Baptists, and a few other Christian sects, including Mormons either come to my door, or bother me while waiting for a bus and reading a book. What preturbs me about holidays is that many Christians don’t realize their forefathers stole and co-opted these days into their worship. Yes, gays have been attacked for centuries, but that was not a tenet of pre-Christian religions. That came after people started worshipping the Christian God and some of his followers chose to speak for him and spread hate. Hate which is now accepted by a vocal minority of zealots who hate the ‘sin’ and stone the ‘sinner.’ ---
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486/60 "2000-12-07T21:25:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Let’s bring back the oldest game: Christians vs. the Lions. > I’ll bring the lions, you bring the Christians Since you obviously need a good reason for posting this, I’ll give you one. Your religion is the Rebellious Bastard Child of The Mother of Harlots in the Book of Revelation, and you’re going to fry like a sausage! There. Now your pointless whining is justified. Have a nice day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love-the-christian-hate-christianity/44486.md?page=4)