# Love **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 7, 2003, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135 "2003-01-07T11:18:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/1 "2003-01-07T11:18:55Z")
As in [symbol]agape[/symbol]. Poly wrote in another thread: > [@](#): > > And I think Libertarian may have the words to make clear the idea that it was Love that motivated you all. I hope he reads this and is inspired to make it clearer than I can. I can’t quite wrap my brain around the notion of making anything more clear than you can since what I often seem to do is confuse people, put them off, and generally fail at exposition. But as a favor to you, and for whatever value it might be to anyone, I believe that love is the conduit for goodness. I don’t know how to put it simpler. Love is the means by which goodness is expressed. The Body of Christ is not a network of churches, but a network of love. God Himself is love. All who love are a part of the Body of Christ, no matter from what “religion” (or none). Whoever loves is conducting goodness and knows God because he is doing what God does. He is, in fact, _being_ God. An atheist might deny God’s existence intellectually, and yet — if the atheist is conducting goodness, then the atheist is doing the same work that God does, and knows God, unlike a theist who is not conducting goodness. For the atheist who loves, the intellect denies, but the spirit confesses; and for the Christian who does not love, the intellect confesses, but the spirit denies. And a person’s true essence is his spirit. Calling Jesus “Lord” is not conducting goodness. But feeding the hungry, ministering to the sick, and visiting those in prison — these are conducting goodness. That’s why Jesus said that many will call Him “Lord” and point out all the things they did in His name, but He will tell them to go away, and say that He never knew them. The ones He knows are the ones who love. ---
**Author:** ![Chumpsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chumpsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chumpsky)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/2 "2003-01-07T11:25:27Z")
“At the risk of seeming ridiculous, let me say that the true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love.” –Ernesto “Che” Guevara ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/3 "2003-01-07T11:28:39Z")
🙂 God go with you, Chumpsky. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/4 "2003-01-07T12:45:07Z")
Sadly… [Annie Lennox] _Its a thin line… Between love and hate_ [/Annie Lennox] ---
**Author:** ![Albert\_Rose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Albert\_Rose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Albert_Rose)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/5 "2003-01-07T15:37:49Z")
Suppose we have an atheist who (unknowingly?) does God’s work. This atheist does not profess a love for Jesus Christ, and has not publicly or privately given his life to Christ, but does do good works. How does Jesus feel about this person? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/6 "2003-01-07T15:40:47Z")
Love can be said to be the level at which divinity and humanity fully embrace one another. Depending on who you worship Love is the ever present search for positive energy. Plato writes of pursuing pleasure in violation of nature, and of the thin line that lies there-in. Wonder steps her lovely feet into all our minds, laying in awe counts for the wise, taking in lust denounces our nature. > [@](#): > > For the atheist who loves, the intellect denies, but the spirit confesses; and for the Christian who does not love, the intellect confesses, but the spirit denies. And a person’s true essence is his spirit. I agree and must interject this quote on my feeling of what love and spirituality mean to me: > [@](#): > > And he said unto them, > “If a man told God that he wanted most of all to help the suffering world, no matter the price to himself, and God answered and told him what he must do, should the man do as he is told?” > > “Of course,” cried the many. “It should be pleasure for him to suffer the tortures of hell itself, should God ask it!” > > “No matter what those tortures, nor difficult the task?” he asked. > > “Honor to be hanged, glory to be nailed to a tree and burned, if so be that God has asked,” said they. > > “And what would you do,” he said unto the multitude, "if God spoke directly to your face and said, ‘I COMMAND THAT YOU BE HAPPY IN THE WORLD, AS LONG AS YOU LIVE,’ what would you do then? > Silence. Sometimes the easiest answer is no answer at all, and sometimes when we think about love, it can only do _it_ injustice to put words into such an imaculate emotion. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/7 "2003-01-07T18:49:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AlbertRose \* > \*\*Suppose we have an atheist who (unknowingly?) does God’s work. This atheist does not profess a love for Jesus Christ, and has not publicly or privately given his life to Christ, but does do good works. > > How does Jesus feel about this person? \*\* That he is His disciple. “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another” — Jesus (John 13:34-35) Sometimes, it seems like Christians present a notion of Jesus as the god of ego who came to earth to rack up a following and make a political splash, sort of “follow me, and not those other guys.” But He didn’t do that. He came to earth to establish God’s Kingdom, a network of love. All who love are His kindred spirits, His brothers and sisters — not beneath Him, but equal to Him. “On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.” — Jesus (John 14:20) ---
**Author:** ![Fatwater\_Fewl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@Fatwater\_Fewl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fatwater_Fewl)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/8 "2003-01-07T18:54:11Z")
You’ll get no disagreement from me about the value of love as a guiding principle for anyone, theist or atheist. > [@](#): > > Calling Jesus “Lord” is not conducting goodness. But feeding the hungry, ministering to the sick, and visiting those in prison — these are conducting goodness. Yes. And to these, I would add that treating everyone and everything around us with respect simply because they _are_ is goodness and love. That, of course, does not mean allowing ourselves to be walked on – because we also _are_. Love means defending against those who do not love. It means defending against ourselves when we do not love. Whether we came to the ability to reason by the metaphorical hand of some unknowable transcendence, or whether it simply appeared as a chance of evolution does not matter. We have it, and it is a terrible and joyous responsibility. Love means what Walt Whitman said, "I celebrate myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. I loaf and invite my soul, I lean and loaf at my ease…observing a spear of summer grass." Or, as **Spiritus** said in another thread, “Life is its own meaning.” Love can only deepen that meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/9 "2003-01-07T20:13:31Z")
Fatwater wrote: > [@](#): > > Love means defending against those who do not love. As good a description of forgiveness as I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/10 "2003-01-07T21:42:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > **As in [symbol]agape[/symbol].** Only [symbol]agape[/symbol]? Plato’s Socrates in _The Symposium_ suggests that [symbol]eros[/symbol], too, can be the pursuit of the good – that “love-as-desire” does not necessarily mean the desire of the physical or material, but of the intellectual and spiritual as well (not trying to muddy the waters – I just like the idea of [symbol]eros[/symbol] as a spiritual as well as a physical force). > [@](#): > > \*\* > Calling Jesus “Lord” is not conducting goodness. But feeding the hungry, ministering to the sick, and visiting those in prison — these are conducting goodness.\*\* Probably a universal sentiment. I tend to avoid using the word “love” for this for the same reason I’m guessing you specified [symbol]agape[/symbol] at the beginning of the thread – the English word “love” covers so many things, often mutually contradictory. I prefer to describe this concept as “humanism” – which for me, in essence, is the understanding that to be human is to care, to work for the common good. ---
**Author:** ![Iamthat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Iamthat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iamthat)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/11 "2003-01-07T21:44:41Z")
**Love is unconditional.** The door is always opened. But the door is round. “Come on in,” Says love. “But I don’t fit,” Says the square. “Well rid yourself of those corners,” Says love." "But can’t you accept me as I am,"Asks the square? “I accept and love every inch of you,” Replies love. “But why is your entrance round when I am square?” Questions the square. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/12 "2003-01-07T21:57:39Z")
The door to love is always open and accepts all. God’s love is unconditional, it doesn’t matter who you are, what you have done, or not done, you are loved by God. You are accepted just as you are into the Kingdom, only a willingness to enter is needed. There are no special interests here, no exclusive groups, nothing you need to accomplish, nothing you need to affirm or vow. Love is giving, with no thought of anything in return. The only place humanity can meet together in peace is at the council of love. Love Leroy a ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/13 "2003-01-07T23:38:12Z")
Great OP, \*_Lib_. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jack\_ss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c77e96/32.png) [@jack\_ss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jack_ss)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/14 "2003-01-07T23:50:17Z")
I have to agree with **Hamish**. There is real giving & acceptance in my erotic love. I’m not a Xtian but I do strongly believe that I am happiest when I base my life on love; allow love to flow through me & touch everyone with whom I come onto contact. I’m sure that someone more logical will come along & say that I’m full of shit, but I love them too. ---
**Author:** ![Emile\_Whites](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e56c9b/32.png) [@Emile\_Whites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emile_Whites)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/15 "2003-01-08T04:59:49Z")
I think we’re giving love more credit that its due, it’s a wonderful feeling, granted. But still, it is no more than anger or hate. I daresay even less of a driving force than anger and hate. It’s all just few hundred thousand neural connections and neural pathways in our brain that fire, there’s nothing more to it, even though we may wish. Therefore, why try to define what it is? Accept it and live with it. You’ll get much more joy out of it then. ---
**Author:** ![TheLadyLion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d78d45/32.png) [@TheLadyLion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLadyLion)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/16 "2003-01-08T05:29:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Emile Whites \* > \*\*I think we’re giving love more credit that its due, it’s a wonderful feeling, granted…It’s all just few hundred thousand neural connections and neural pathways in our brain that fire, there’s nothing more to it, even though we may wish. \*\* Sorry, but I have to disagree here. Sure, love is a feeling, and it is a word and concept that a lot of people abuse and contort. But IMHO, love is a manner of behaving toward self and others, not merely the easily-tossed-about word or the nebulous emotion. The great majority of people in our country say they FEEL love for someone… how many of them can honestly say they DO love for that same person? ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/17 "2003-01-08T06:05:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Iamthat \* > \*\ ***Love is unconditional.** > The door is always opened. > > But the door is round. > > “Come on in,” Says love. > > “But I don’t fit,” Says the square. > > “Well rid yourself of those corners,” Says love." > > "But can’t you accept me as I am,"Asks the square? > > “I accept and love every inch of you,” Replies love. > > “But why is your entrance round when I am square?” Questions the square. \*\* “Then we shall come out,” replies love. ---
**Author:** ![Iamthat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Iamthat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iamthat)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/18 "2003-01-08T08:27:31Z")
\*\*\* Triskadecamus\*\*\* > [@](#): > > **"Then we shall come out," replies love.** “And here we are,” says the square. “And did you know **love** that my corners are made of fear, hate, hopelessness, despair and dread?" "And will it not taint and tarnish you? Can you embrace ignorance or will you do as Jesus … Posted by \*\*\* Libertarian\*\*\* > [@](#): > > \*\* That’s why Jesus said that many will call Him “Lord” and point out all the things they did in His name, but He will tell them to go away, and say that He never knew them. The ones He knows are the ones who love.\*\* and send me away and say that you never knew me?" ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/19 "2003-01-08T08:43:35Z")
—An atheist might deny God’s existence intellectually, and yet — if the atheist is conducting goodness, then the atheist is doing the same work that God does, and knows God— I can understand that this is how you might see it from your perspective, but you also seem to add lots more to the definition of God than just what a non-believer woul understand as “love.” Or is your only dispute with non-believers who love that they use the wrong terminology? —For the atheist who loves, the intellect denies, but the spirit confesses— Again, this might make sense from your perspective, but from that of a non-believer, it’s a little presumptive to say that their intellect is denying a truth that your’s acknowledges. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135/20 "2003-01-08T08:54:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Emile Whites \* > \*\*I think we’re giving love more credit that its due, it’s a wonderful feeling, granted. But still, it is no more than anger or hate. I daresay even less of a driving force than anger and hate. > > It’s all just few hundred thousand neural connections and neural pathways in our brain that fire, there’s nothing more to it, even though we may wish. > > Therefore, why try to define what it is? Accept it and live with it. You’ll get much more joy out of it then. \*\* You are forgetting the reason the neural connections fire – at the command of our consciousness, we are much greater than a brain. Love is the consciousness of God, when we are attuned, it guides our path through all the obstacles of physical life, teaching us compassion, caring, patience, joy, and knowledge of ourselves and our neighbors. It is the most powerful thing in the universe, because it is the universe. It accepts, holds, and keeps us safe throughout all eternity. Love Leroy [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/love/147135.md?page=2)