# Lovingly dedicated to anti-Masonic tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 21, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931 "2004-12-21T04:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/81 "2004-12-23T04:46:04Z")
On second thought after posting, I realized that this really isn’t the time or place for my opinion of discriminatory organizations. I’ll get off my soapbox now, if that’s alright. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/82 "2004-12-23T05:24:33Z")
Two Blue Lodges? I did not know that was even possible. Are you able to meet with brethren in KSA? (I feel fairly confident there is no Grand Lodge of the KSA.) WRS - I always felt nice there are Freemasons on Board. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/83 "2004-12-23T07:06:33Z")
Despite my disappointment that the flunkies, like i’d be, don’t get included in the World Domination thing, for some reason the Masons have long attracted me. Maybe it’s because my grandfather was Scotch Rite, making him a pagan in the eyes of the brother I lurve to piss off. Then agian, maybe it’s the Good Works. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/84 "2004-12-23T07:16:42Z")
I was raised in a Lodge in Missouri, I am also a member of a Lodge in Maryland, and another whose location is described in the little paragraph at the bottom of the entry for ‘American-Canadian Grand Lodge of Germany’ in you list of Lodges. Three Blue Lodges. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/85 "2004-12-23T07:37:31Z")
I didn’t know in the _desert_ there grew _roses_. October 26 is a nice date, no? Or do you prefer the year 1_882_. Am I close? WRS - I had no idea the ACGL existed. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/86 "2004-12-23T11:28:11Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > I didn’t know in the _desert_ there grew _roses_. October 26 is a nice date, no? > > Or do you prefer the year 1_882_. > > Am I close? > > WRS - I had no idea the ACGL existed. Full many a flower is born to blush unseen, And waste its sweetness on the desert air. Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/87 "2004-12-23T11:56:05Z")
Nejma is ‘Star’ in Arabic. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/88 "2004-12-23T18:26:26Z")
The world is quiet here. ---
**Author:** ![infamousmom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d6d6ee/32.png) [@infamousmom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infamousmom)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/89 "2004-12-24T08:31:19Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > After a little research I can say with absolute certainty that not a single Grand Lodge in the USA recognizes this group. The same is true for England. As such, the folks who are members of the cited group are NOT Masons, no matter what they call themselves. As I said in another post, put “masons le droit humain” into a Google search. You might just learn something. On the other hand, taking pride in membership in an organization that thinks what a Grand Lodge recognizes matters… ---
**Author:** ![infamousmom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d6d6ee/32.png) [@infamousmom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infamousmom)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/90 "2004-12-24T08:35:19Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > Resistance to becoming coed is simple: out of respect of tradition. “Dagnabbit, Billy Bob, Ah ain’t a-gonna go to th’ pit’cher-show no more. They done done away with th’ whites-only entrance.” ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/91 "2004-12-24T11:51:35Z")
> [@infamousmom](#): > > As I said in another post, put “masons le droit humain” into a Google search. You might just learn something. > > On the other hand, taking pride in membership in an organization that thinks what a Grand Lodge recognizes matters… I did Google search the term, as well as the English version, and what I got was mostly a lot of hooie. You obviously don’t don’t know nearly as much about Masonry as you think you do or you wouldn’t make such an ill-informed statement re Grand Lodges. I will repeat: Whatever those people are, they are NOT Masons, no matter what they call themselves. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/92 "2004-12-24T12:15:04Z")
Now, I don’t have a cite, but I was under the impression that Adam Weishaupt and his bunch had infiltrated several Masonic lodges in order to, well, convert them to the Illuminati ‘side’. Is there not some truth in this? ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/93 "2004-12-24T12:27:39Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Now, I don’t have a cite, but I was under the impression that Adam Weishaupt and his bunch had infiltrated several Masonic lodges in order to, well, convert them to the Illuminati ‘side’. > > Is there not some truth in this? I am sure that the Masonic fraternity has been infiltrated by lots and lots of folks over the years. The complete Masonic ritual can be found in any number of books in larger public libraries and I’m sure it can be found on the internet if anyone wants to go to the effort of looking. A true Mason wouldn’t divulge the ritual, so it must have been exposed by either infiltrators or traitor members of the fraternity. So what? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/94 "2004-12-24T12:29:02Z")
> [@infamousmom](#): > > “Dagnabbit, Billy Bob, Ah ain’t a-gonna go to th’ pit’cher-show no more. They done done away with th’ whites-only entrance.” That’s just ignorant. **infamousmom** are you really that insecure? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/95 "2004-12-24T12:31:27Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > . So what? Um, so what if a sub-sect of masons infiltrated lodges and converted members to their own designs? ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/96 "2004-12-25T01:33:02Z")
As far as the Grand Lodges throughout the world are concerned, there is no such thing as a female Mason. The wife of Mason is a female Mason insofar as she’s such an important part of the Mason; members of the Order of the Eastern Star permit women to be involved with the Masonic current - but there is no such thing as an approved Blue Lodge that permits women to become Masons. Freemasonry throughout the world is very, very, very clear about this. Now, that doesn’t mean that there are not groups that call themselves Masonic who permit women to be members. These groups are not recognized by Ancient Free and Accepted Masons. They may call themselves Masons but they are not recognized as such by the world’s Masons. **FinnAgain** - sure, they can infiltrate, but they won’t be able to convert or change anything. Faithfulness to tradition - like in many very old institutions - is a prized value. If someone comes in and tries to change things around, he’d be ignored. No one messes with our traditions. Even if someone comes in and soon afterwards says, “Well, I have this plan, see…” I doubt people are going to take him seriously. And if it becomes clear that person joined just to influence/convert/change people, he probably would be kicked out - people are forbidden to join for mercenary reasons. **infamousmom** - I feel sorry for the senseless rage in you. For what it’s worth, I most certainly do not appear to be white or Christian, and I had no problem whatsoever gaining admission. The brethren at my Lodge were under the assumption they would conduct my initiation with a Masonic Qur’an - until, that is, I informed them that using the Lodge’s Bible would be good enough for me. At the Blue Lightning ceremony - when many people were initiated, passed, and raised in one day - I saw people of all ethnicities and colors and creeds there. Furthermore, Masons extend their services to people regardless of their sex, race, color, or creed. There’s no admissions test if someone wants to use a Masonic hospital or other such service. It’s available to non-Masons as well. To paint Masons as intolerant or racist or even sexist is very ignorant and is quite offensive and troubling for those of us who try to fight the people’s ignorance of and misconceptions about Freemasonry and Freemasons. WRS/Thû ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/97 "2004-12-25T11:14:26Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > **FinnAgain** - sure, they can infiltrate, but they won’t be able to convert or change anything. > > Faithfulness to tradition - like in many very old institutions - is a prized value. If someone comes in and tries to change things around, he’d be ignored. No one messes with our traditions. Even if someone comes in and soon afterwards says, “Well, I have this plan, see…” I doubt people are going to take him seriously. And if it becomes clear that person joined just to influence/convert/change people, he probably would be kicked out - people are forbidden to join for mercenary reasons. I’m sorry, but I just don’t buy that. The O.’.T.’.O.’. and A.’.A.’. were both composed largely of masons, and although I can’t remember which one it was at the moment, one directly required their applicants to be masons of a certain degree. So, yes, given proper ‘motivation’ even Masons will apparently take up other causes. There’s also the fact that Knigge (sp?) and Weishaupt’s bunch did indeed manage to convert a few memebers, and if some of the claims made are correct, entire lodges. And while tradition is great n’ all, I just don’t see everybody who’s a member of The Craft being untouchable. “…always conceal, never reveal, any part or parts, art or arts…” And yet… the Mason Word (or something that’s supposed to be the Mason Word) has made the rounds on the 'net. Ma’ha’bone and all that. Then there is of course Gelli’s (and the Vatican’s) involvement in the whole P2 mess… not to mention certain rumors about the lodges in Zurich. ---
**Author:** ![MXR90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MXR90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MXR90)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/98 "2004-12-25T11:51:32Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Nice job advocating for your brothers there. I assume you work in a public relations job? > > I think one of the important points about the “women-as-masons” issue is that there is no monolithic leadership of Masonry. There are several different interpretations. In the US for example, there are: > Free & Accepted Masons (F & A M) > Ancient Free & Accepted Masons (A F & A M) > Prince Hall Masons > and many, many others. > > In the US, each state (most other places it’s done by country) has a Grand Lodge composed of lodges in that state of it’s particular type. Florida has at least two that I’m aware of: the Grand Lodge of Florida, F & A M and the Grand Lodge of Florida, Prince Hall. Each Grand Lodge (GL) has a committee of members responsible for investigating other Grand Lodges to determine whether it will extend recognition and reciprocity to that Grand Lodge’s members. It is, to my knowledge, very unusual for any GL to extend that privilege to any other GL operating within the same geographic boundaries. For example, Prince Hall Masons and F&AM Masons in Florida may not visit each other’s lodges although the two GLs actually have a somewhat cordial relationship (unique circumstances). There’s at least one other GL here that does not have a particularly good relationship with either the PH or F&AM (name escapes me, International or Universal or something like that). For GLs in other areas, recognition is usually based on the committee’s acceptance that the requesting GL is a “true” lodge, not in the sense that the ritual is exactly the same (they never are), but that the core tenets of Masonry are upheld. In most branches that I am familiar with, one of those core tenets is that a woman will not be made a Master Mason. > > Zakalwe, P.M. Just because one is a freemason doesn’t mean you are no longer and individual. If you don’t like my approach to matters of bullshit you can just scan right down the page and not read it, thanks. I’m not here to impress you. ---
**Author:** ![MXR90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MXR90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MXR90)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/99 "2004-12-25T11:53:19Z")
> [@infamousmom](#): > > Hate to break it to ya, pal, but there have been plenty of female Masons. The International Order of Co-Freemasonry has always admitted both genders. > > Been sniffing the fumes outta that funny hat of yours again? Co-Freemasonry is not recognized by any GL of Freemasonry. I hate to break it to ya but you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![MXR90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MXR90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MXR90)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/100 "2004-12-25T11:54:37Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > . > > **MXR90** said: To which I say, Brilliant and well said. Merry Christmas . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931.md?page=6)