# Lovingly dedicated to anti-Masonic tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 21, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931 "2004-12-21T04:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![MXR90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MXR90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MXR90)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/101 "2004-12-25T11:56:26Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > I guess for the same reason that I have no interest in joining Junior League or some other traditionally women-only organization. Men and women are different and those differences can (and should) be recognized, acknowledged, and celebrated without denigrating either sex. Masons aren’t taught that women are inferior, in fact, honor for womanhood is also a tenet of Masonry. They just can’t be Masons. > > Why does everything have to be open to everyone? Very well said, and true. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/102 "2004-12-25T11:57:47Z")
> [@MXR90](#): > > That is a crock of shit, and there is no female mason, never was and never will be. [Wrong](http://www.mastermason.com/friendship-83/easternstar.htm) [Oops?](http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/aqc/aldworth.html) ---
**Author:** ![MXR90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MXR90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MXR90)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/103 "2004-12-25T12:01:14Z")
> [@infamousmom](#): > > As I said in another post, put “masons le droit humain” into a Google search. You might just learn something. > > On the other hand, taking pride in membership in an organization that thinks what a Grand Lodge recognizes matters… This tells nothing, being a mason myself coming from a family of masons I can assure you this organization is not nor will it ever be a part of the Masons. You purport this organization is part of an organization you say this about ? “On the other hand, taking pride in membership in an organization that thinks what a Grand Lodge recognizes matters…” In other words you haven’t a clue about the subject, and of course the organization because you’re not part of it,…so your intent is just to be a jerk. :wally ---
**Author:** ![MXR90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MXR90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MXR90)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/104 "2004-12-25T12:02:39Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > [Wrong](http://www.mastermason.com/friendship-83/easternstar.htm) > [Oops?](http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/aqc/aldworth.html) I think that the Eastern Star has already been mentioned on this thread, and it is still NOT blue lodge,…nice attempt at diversion but no cigar, pal. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/105 "2004-12-25T12:12:42Z")
> [@MXR90](#): > > I think that the Eastern Star has already been mentioned on this thread, and it is still NOT blue lodge,…nice attempt at diversion but no cigar, pal. Um, did you read the cites? > [@](#): > > The initiation of the Hon. Miss Elizabeth St. Leger, afterwards the wife of Richard Aldworth, Esq., has long been a recognized fact in the history of Freemasonry in Ireland. > Several accounts, more or less differing in detail, and generally remarkable for their want of accuracy, have already been published.1 The most authentic appears to be the one issued at Cork, with the authority of the family, in 1811. Although these different accounts vary considerably in the description of the manner in which Miss St. Leger witnessed the secret ceremonial carried on in the Lodge,\*\* the main fact of her being made a Mason remains undisputed.\*\* So, screw the Eastern Star, there still was a female mason. Nice attempt at diversion, no cigar. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/106 "2004-12-25T14:04:25Z")
No response, eh? Maybe you shouldn’t be so quick to call people dopes and suggest that they’re busy hitting a bong… when you’re dead wrong. ---
**Author:** ![MXR90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MXR90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MXR90)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/107 "2004-12-25T20:36:17Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > No response, eh? > Maybe you shouldn’t be so quick to call people dopes and suggest that they’re busy hitting a bong… when you’re dead wrong. I find it sad that you expect a response immediately after you post something, dope. Although I do enjoy frequenting the internet just as you do, I don’t assume people are there to post immediately after I post or they have no response. If you read that story she was not accepted, it was a back door membership that is not recognized by the Masons. Sorry, no cigar. Besides, what do you care, are you a mason? Do you plan on becoming a Mason? The way I see it if you leftie crybabies can’t take a little ad hominem in a BBQ pit maybe you ought not have evidence of doing the same in your posting history. :wally ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/108 "2004-12-25T21:48:35Z")
> [@MXR90](#): > > not recognized by the Masons. Sorry, no cigar. She was made a mason, her acceptance by a larger community is non-essential to disporove your statement that there was ‘never’ a female mason. > [@](#): > > These circumstances amply support the tradition that Miss St. Leger was a young girl **at the time she was made a Mason.** She was seventeen in 1710; and we may safely place the date of her initiation after 1710 and before the year 1718. > [@](#): > > I must congratulate you on being able to exhibit to the Lodge this representation of Mrs. Aldworth’s apron, and I am sure the best thanks of the members are due to Col. Aldworth, for having so kindly prepared such a capital facsimile of **this interesting relic of his Masonic ancestor** > [@](#): > > It could hardly be expected that one apron would, **with Mrs. Aldworth’s regular attention to her Masonic duties** , remain in perfect order for twenty or more years. > [@](#): > > From the pamphlet accompanying this engraving, we gather that **Mrs. Aldworth was a most exemplary member of the Craft**. Holding, as she did, the distinction of\*\* being the only Lady Mason\*\*, “she had such a veneration for Masonry that she would never suffer it to be spoken lightly of in her hearing; nor would she touch on the subject, but with the greatest caution, in company with even her most intimate friends, whom she did not know to be Masons, and when she did, it was under evident embarrassment, and a trembling apprehension lest she might, in a moment of inadvertance, commit a breach of Masonic duty.” Etc… In other words, you are full of shit. > [@MXR90](#): > > Besides, what do you care, are you a mason? Do you plan on becoming a Mason? See, here at the Dope we fight ignorance. If you weren’t so busy being a shitstain, you might know that. The way I see it if you leftie crybabies can’t take a little ad hominem in a BBQ pit maybe you ought not have evidence of doing the same in your posting history. [/QUOTE] You are anad odious little blemish on the Dope. I’m not quite sure what to say other than that I’ve never found anybody quite so distasteful in text; you really are noxious. I have no idea what your attempts to make ‘lefties’ fungible are driven by, but my guess is intellectual cowardice. Moreoever, one would hope that even ad hominem in the pit it based on factual facets, you have egg on your face and are insulting members for being right while you are dead wrong. Are you doing this to stir things up, to piss people off? Are you attempting to make the ‘lefties’ mad? ---
**Author:** ![MXR90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MXR90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MXR90)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/109 "2004-12-26T11:51:17Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > She was made a mason, her acceptance by a larger community is non-essential to disporove your statement that there was ‘never’ a female mason. > > Etc… > In other words, you are full of shit. > > See, here at the Dope we fight ignorance. > If you weren’t so busy being a shitstain, you might know that. > > The way I see it if you leftie crybabies can’t take a little ad hominem in a BBQ pit maybe you ought not have evidence of doing the same in your posting history. You are anad odious little blemish on the Dope. I’m not quite sure what to say other than that I’ve never found anybody quite so distasteful in text; you really are noxious. I have no idea what your attempts to make ‘lefties’ fungible are driven by, but my guess is intellectual cowardice. Moreoever, one would hope that even ad hominem in the pit it based on factual facets, you have egg on your face and are insulting members for being right while you are dead wrong. Are you doing this to stir things up, to piss people off? Are you attempting to make the ‘lefties’ mad? [/QUOTE] Here at the dope many see you find websites of one lodge practicing a ritual which is not a practice of FreeMasonry, and you call it absolute for all members because you have nothing more to base your knowlege on. You are not a Mason, you probably never will be and for that reason alone you look like an ass to anyone who knows about…like, real members who know you’re full of shit. What is your purpose here, to wedge your tinfoil hat over your head, twirl your whirlybird and piss of the Masons? Trust me when I say al you have is a website, thats it. You have no knowlege first hand and you aren’t getting it from me. If you like having fun with your website, go ahead, because the mere concept of being shot down publicly by weenies like yourself is far less concerning for me than the joy I get when brother smiles at your intellectual ignorance. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/110 "2004-12-26T12:10:31Z")
> [@MXR90](#): > > Here at the dope many see you find websites of one lodge practicing a ritual which is not a practice of FreeMasonry Shit piss and vinegar. Whichever lodge inducted her was a masonic lodge. You, however, are a tiresome child. > [@MXR90](#): > > and you call it absolute for all members because you have nothing more to base your knowlege on. I do? Surely then you can quote where I say it? Idiot. If anybody on this board cares more about proper semantic hygiene and less for absolutes and fungibility, I’ve not met 'im. > [@MXR90](#): > > You are not a Mason, you probably never will be and for that reason alone you look like an ass to anyone who knows about… Anybody who knows about the **dread four dots**??? I sure as hell wouldn’t want to fuck with _those_ badasses! No siree “Bob” ! Moreoever, one of us has used cites, the other claims that their post is their cite. Wonder which one Dopers would think looked like an ass… > [@MXR90](#): > > like, real members who know you’re full of shit. I see… I’m full of shit when I cite a well documented historical curiousity, one that is vouched for by Masons and has been for over a century? If you say so. > [@MXR90](#): > > What is your purpose here, to wedge your tinfoil hat over your head, twirl your whirlybird and piss of the Masons? Oh, yes, stating facts which are impecably cited is certainly tinfoil hattery. And I also, deep down, know that posting facts will enrage the masons. :rolleyes: Methinks you’re an embarasment to your brethren. > [@MXR90](#): > > Trust me when I say al you have is a website, thats it. You have no knowlege first hand and you aren’t getting it from me. That’s correct, I have what’s known as a **cite** , you don’t even have that much. And, no, I wouldn’t be getting first hand knowledge from you becuase you weren’t alive over a century ago and living in Ireland, were you? > [@MXR90](#): > > If you like having fun with your website, go ahead, “Moooooom! **Finn** found a cite that proves me wrong and I don’t like it! Make him stop! Make him stop!” > [@MXR90](#): > > because the mere concept of being shot down publicly by weenies like yourself is far less concerning for me than the joy I get when brother smiles at your intellectual ignorance. 😃 Intellectual ignorance? Is that anything like the wilful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty of which you are possesed? ---
**Author:** ![MXR90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MXR90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MXR90)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/111 "2004-12-26T12:36:44Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Shit piss and vinegar. > Whichever lodge inducted her was a masonic lodge. > You, however, are a tiresome child. > > I do? > Surely then you can quote where I say it? > Idiot. > If anybody on this board cares more about proper semantic hygiene and less for absolutes and fungibility, I’ve not met 'im. > > Anybody who knows about the **dread four dots**??? I sure as hell wouldn’t want to fuck with _those_ badasses! No siree “Bob” ! > Moreoever, one of us has used cites, the other claims that their post is their cite. Wonder which one Dopers would think looked like an ass… > > I see… I’m full of shit when I cite a well documented historical curiousity, one that is vouched for by Masons and has been for over a century? > If you say so. > > Oh, yes, stating facts which are impecably cited is certainly tinfoil hattery. And I also, deep down, know that posting facts will enrage the masons. :rolleyes: > Methinks you’re an embarasment to your brethren. > > That’s correct, I have what’s known as a **cite** , you don’t even have that much. And, no, I wouldn’t be getting first hand knowledge from you becuase you weren’t alive over a century ago and living in Ireland, were you? > > “Moooooom! **Finn** found a cite that proves me wrong and I don’t like it! Make him stop! Make him stop!” > > Intellectual ignorance? > Is that anything like the wilful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty of which you are possesed? All of that childish stupidity and you’re still wrong, fool. You are making a total ass of yourself. Thanks for the show, I think I’m starting to enjoy it since I’m over feeling sorry for you. Wilful ignorance suits you well. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MXR90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MXR90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MXR90)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/112 "2004-12-26T12:48:15Z")
I just can’t do it, it was fun for a short while acting the leftie with rants of denial and baiting ad hominem (While Finnie did bite HARD) showing us all that , yes, even the critical left who likens themselves to a superior intellect resort to ad hominem, personal attacks and lack of debate tactics, are no better than any conservative on this board. LOL!!! Yes, there were women in the Masons. It should be remembered that all these instances occurred before the formation of the first Grand Lodge in London in 1717. In 1723 the Rev. James Anderson was given the task of issuing a set of Constitutions, which were revised in 1738, when he introduced the idea that women were prohibited from becoming masons See what it’s like trying to deal with people who just won’t listen, back down or even concede their point , Finnie? It isn’t so much fucking fun is it? You’ve been punked, my friend. When it comes to organizations you are not part of, are not privy to, you ought to learn how to keep your ears and eyes peeled open looking for information rather than attempting to insert it. You are not Mason, those who post on this thread about the rituals, all the tomfoolery that has been projected at the Masons, should learn by this lesson and shut the fuck up until they know what they’re talking about. You were an easy subject, thanks! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/113 "2004-12-26T14:37:37Z")
> [@MXR90](#): > > I just can’t do it, it was fun for a short while acting the leftie with rants of denial and baiting ad hominem (While Finnie did bite HARD) showing us all that , yes, even the critical left who likens themselves to a superior intellect resort to ad hominem, personal attacks and lack of debate tactics, are no better than any conservative on this board. LOL!!! > > See what it’s like trying to deal with people who just won’t listen, back down or even concede their point , Finnie? It isn’t so much fucking fun is it? > > You’ve been punked, my friend… > > You were an easy subject, thanks! 😉 Ah, so I get it. :smack: You were…um… fishing for a response to your assertations that there were no female members of the masons, yet knowing there were. And knowing that some of the responses could be somewhat heated, all the more fun for you. Hooooboy, you sure put one over on them, hooked and reeled them in, just like you thought. Intellectual superiority at it’s uh, finest. Kind of tricky the way you did that though. There should be a rule. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/114 "2004-12-26T19:43:56Z")
[This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5650279#post5650279) is the time and the place for my opinions of discriminatory organizations. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/115 "2004-12-26T21:51:58Z")
> [@MXR90](#): > > You’ve been punked And you’ve been banned. Funny, that. **WeRSauron** : would you mind responding to [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5647700&postcount=97) at some point? I’m interested to get your take on it. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/116 "2004-12-26T22:42:41Z")
Thank you, **FinnAgain** , for pointing out that thread. This sexual discrimination issue is interesting. WRS ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/117 "2004-12-26T22:45:58Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > Thank you, **FinnAgain** , for pointing out that thread. > This sexual discrimination issue is interesting. Erm, **featherlou** pointed you to the other thread. I pointed you to an earlier post in this thread where I talked about certain groups which, apparantly, were composed largely of Masons and had, shall we say, ulterior motives. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/118 "2004-12-26T23:10:57Z")
Ah, my bad. Thanks, **featherlou** , for pointing me to that thread. Freemasonry has had a significant influence on the occult or mystical traditions of the West. The Golden Dawn - long held in high esteem as a very well developed and sophistocated and worthy occult or mystery tradition - is replete with Masonic elements. No surprise, this: most of the people involved with the Golden Dawn were Masons. Does this mean that Lodges were infiltrated to recruit? No. It simply means that whoever created these organizations was influenced by Masonry and saw it fit to associate with Masonry. Why did they recruit Masons? I don’t know. It should be noted that around this time Freemasonry was in its heyday. Men of prominent families joined the Craft. Aleister Crowley formed the AA, I believe - I would assume it was the OTO that required its members to be Masons. Not anymore, however: being a Mason is not a prerequisite for either the AA, OTO, or any other occult organization. For what it’s worth, any occult organization that at least initially had any connections with Freemasonry has lost those connections (except, of course, for the Masonic elements within their rituals). The “P2” lodge was disbanded in 1976. It’s Grand Master, Lucio Gelli, was expelled. Nevertheless, he continued with his old contacts and perpetuated his organization, even though it would have to exist separate from the Grand Orient of Italy. [From here.](http://www.masonicinfo.com/p2_lodge.htm) From this I conclude that although the P2 began in Freemasonry, its criminal nature was found and subsequently expelled. As such, Freemasons should not be blamed, but rather people who became Masons for mercenary means. I should admit I was wrong: it is possible for people to recruit Masons. However, no one has hijacked Freemasonry - yet, at least. WRS ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/119 "2004-12-26T23:34:08Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > Aleister Crowley formed the AA, I believe - I would assume it was the OTO that required its members to be Masons. Not anymore, however: being a Mason is not a prerequisite for either the AA, OTO, or any other occult organization. Yeah, I remembered after I posted. Crowley founded the A.’.A.’. and required any new entries to be, I believe, 32nd degree masons. (I don’t know if I have the number correct, as it’s from memory) The O.’.T.’.O.’. and A.’.A.’. aren’t really in existance in the same form today. Kenneth Grant is the legislated 'Outer Head of the Order." but… > [@WeRSauron](#): > > For what it’s worth, any occult organization that at least initially had any connections with Freemasonry has lost those connections (except, of course, for the Masonic elements within their rituals). Possibly true. But then again possibly false. The days of Crowley and Yeats are not that far off, and it is quite possible that there were Masons/Templars then who’re alive now, or their children who’ve taken up similar roles. (Templars as in the Ordo Templi Orientalis) > [@WeRSauron](#): > > I should admit I was wrong: it is possible for people to recruit Masons. However, no one has hijacked Freemasonry - yet, at least. Pardon me if my posts conveyed that impression. I didn’t mean to suggest that Masonry had itself been hijacked, but it seems to me that from time to time, depending on how you phrase it, it’s either been used or existed in a symbiotic relationship with other organizations. ---
**Author:** ![Wrath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ee7513/32.png) [@Wrath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrath)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931/120 "2004-12-27T19:17:05Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > Actually, there are lodges of Masons that admit men and women. There’s a term for them, but I can’t recall it. They’re called “clandestine.” > [@WeRSauron](#): > > However, I don’t they’re recognized my many Grand Lodges. Maybe if most Masons were young and willing to let go of tradition this would change. If your Grand Lodge has determined that another Grand Lodge juridiction is clandestine, you are not permitted to communicate Masonically with that Lodge. Doing so puts you in violation of your obligation. The trick is to get the vote into your Grand Lodge to change it’s definition of a clandestine lodge; however, you’re not likely to find a majoirty of Masons in favor of altering one of the most enduring landmarks of Freemasonry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lovingly-dedicated-to-anti-masonic-tin-foil-hat-or-skullcap-wearers/280931.md?page=7)