# Low Carb Diets **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 28, 2004, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368 "2004-01-28T02:29:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/41 "2004-05-08T00:09:01Z")
The main problem we found out in our school with the low-carb diet is that some people want to _improve_ or _accelerate_ the weight loss by skipping meals entirely or in other words fasting. It does help too that these people did not bother to increase their fluid intake. It’s no wonder these students either fainted or felt to weak to sit up straight in class. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/42 "2004-05-08T00:18:48Z")
Regarding the existence of long-term studies into low-carb diets, and Atkin’s in particular? My understanding is that in the last 2 years, both Sheffield University and Copenhagen University have conducted substantial studies over a 12 month period on over 100 trial subjects. I’m happy to concede that the definition of a “long term” study is a nebulous one, and as such, the findings of the Sheffield and Copehangen studies are indeed open to conjecture, however, in the interests of fairness, my recollection of their findings were as follows… (1) Diets which have unlimited fats (both saturated and unsaturated) do NOT affect appetite in any way. (2) Diets which are unusually high in protein content would seem to reduce appetite substantially. It would seem that THIS is the “magic bullet” attached to the Atkin’s Diet - namely, while practitioners are theoretically allowed to eat as much as they want of certain foods, the net result is that their reduced appetites result in fewer calories ingested over the long term - ergo, weight loss takes place. (3) Low Carb Diets are effectively a fashion cry it seems. Claims that practioners of Low Carb Diets remain in permanent ketosis etc etc are somewhat true - but NOT for the reasons being claimed. It appears that the reduced appetite brought about by large amounts of protein in one’s diet results in the fewer calories - which by extension results in the regular presence of ketosis. **Blowero** mentioned calorie consumption earlier, and indeed, it remains the inarguable empirical measurement device which can be used to guage human weight gains and losses. My personal philosophy is that you can eat as much as you want so long as you’re guaranteed of burning it off. However, I’m also aware that a vast percentage of the population doesn’t have the capacity to burn 3,000 or more calories a day in exercise or manual labour - due to such real world constraints such a parental responsibilities or geographic location etc - hence, I’m happy to concede that there is indeed merit in concentrating on a HIGH PROTEIN diet to induce appetite suppression. Interestingly, the findings of the Sheffield and Copenhagen Universities are proving to be a slow trickle feed into the public domain for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/43 "2004-05-08T00:46:31Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > \*\* > > **So I await the testimonials from those who have been on it for a year or more and have maintained a statistically significant weight loss.** Ok then. #1. 25yo female, on Atkins for 1 year and 2 months. 90 lbs lost, 60 to go. Cholesterol dropped 30 pts in first 6 months, haven’t been to doc lately… ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/44 "2004-05-08T04:59:39Z")
Um, that wasn’t me awaiting testimonials 🙂 I believe ya, hon. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/45 "2004-05-08T21:09:17Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > \*\*Thirty seven people is waaaaaaaaaaaay too small of a sample for this study to have any reliability. With all the money being handed out for research you’d think someone out there would be able to dig up a couple of thousand for each group and go at it. Yes, it was a small study, but CR says it has been the only one, altho **Boo Boo Foo** says he heard of two others. I read from another source that long-term studies of the effects of the Atkins diet are underway. The CR article also says: > [@](#): > > A six-month study that actually tracked calorie consumption, headed by Frederick F. Samaha, M.D., of the Philadelp;hia Veterans Affairs Medical Center, found that by the end of the study the low-carb dieters reported that they had cut an average of 189 more calories a day than the low-fat dieters. That was more than enough to account for the average 8.5 extra pounds they had shed. OK, so no matter how, it worked for six months. Dr. Brian Wansink said that the prime reason the low-carb diet worked was it was boring. “I almost guarantee that everone would lose weight on an all-pizza or all-chocolate diet.” ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/46 "2004-05-09T01:48:13Z")
**barbitu8** , my father used to have a saying > [@](#): > > Nothing suceeds like sucess If following Dr. Atkin’s approach allows someone to lose extra weight during the first part of the diet, this will only work to reinforce a sense of sucess, and help the dieter stay on the diet IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/47 "2004-05-09T02:08:29Z")
For those of you who have questions about Atkins and other lo carb diets you might want to check out the following bulletin board. I went there a few times when I started this thing and always got useful responses to my questions. [Atkins diet bulletin board](http://atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/) If interested you might also want to check out the following link. It describes the diet I’ve been following for almost two years. It sounded more compatible to me than Atkins. It probably overlaps Atkins by 80%. I’ve been amazed at how easy it’s been to follow. I was a serious junk food addict before starting it. I shot past my goal weight very quickly, have maintained at several pounds below goal, almost never crave sweets and my blood tests for LDL and HDL are pretty much off the charts in the positive direction. Also, getting back to the exercise question, my endurance got better this winter with almost no exercise. [Hunter-gatherer diet](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=hunter-gatherer+diet&btnG=Google+Search) ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/48 "2004-05-09T04:39:06Z")
**Dr. Brian Wansink said that the prime reason the low-carb diet worked was it was boring. "I almost guarantee that everone would lose weight on an all-pizza or all-chocolate diet."** Sheeyet. What backalley scam “medical school” bestowed an MD on this putz? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/49 "2004-05-09T04:52:38Z")
I hear you. The weakest spot in a physician’s medical knowledge is usually diet and nutrition. Your typical doctor is 10-20 years behind the latest findings, and will usually be stuck repeating whatever what was current when he was in med school. The doctor quoted in _Consumer Reports_ sounds like he knows Atkins only from limited, second-hand information. Boring? I had pancakes and bacon for breakfast, a chocolate peanut butter nutrition bar for lunch (on the road), and beef burritos for dinner. Tomorrow, a western omelet for breakfast, ham salad for lunch, and beef stew with a tomato salad for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/50 "2004-05-09T05:10:37Z")
[QUOTE=Abbie CarmichaelWhat backalley scam “medical school” bestowed an MD on this putz?[/QUOTE] Ummmm…he’s not a medical doctor: > [@](#): > > [Brian Wansink](http://www.foodpsychology.com/press/wansinkbio.html) (Ph.D. Stanford University) is the Julian Simon Fellow and Professor of Marketing, Nutritional Science, Marketing, and Agricultural Economics at the University of Illinois. > > He earned his Ph.D. in marketing at Stanford (1990) and was a marketing professor at the Amos Tuck School at Dartmouth College (1990-1994), the Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam (1994-1995), and the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania (1995-1997). He then moved to the University of Illinois in 1997 to establish the Food & Brand Lab which uniquely focuses on the psychology behind what people eat and how often they eat it. So, there’s your answer. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/51 "2004-05-09T06:20:34Z")
That would explain why this “Doctor” “guarantees” that someone could lose weight on an all-chocolate diet. OH, IF ONLY!!! Snickers for breakfast. A chocolate orange (Terry’s) for lunch. Half a bag of Sam’s Choice caramel cups for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/52 "2004-05-09T06:38:55Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > **barbitu8** , my father used to have a saying If following Dr. Atkin’s approach allows someone to lose extra weight during the first part of the diet, this will only work to reinforce a sense of sucess, and help the dieter stay on the diet IMHO. Rick I think that is very true about low carb. You get to eat good foods, don’t feel hungry, and do drop weight quickly at the beginning and for a long while afterwards. Actually I think Atkins even said this was a good thing about low carb too. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/53 "2004-05-09T08:15:54Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > I know I’m opening Pandora’s Box, or at least a hornet’s nest, by resurrecting this thread, but the June 2004 issue of _Consumer Reports_ has an article about low-carb foods. (If you’re an avid Atkins fan, don’t read it.) It states, in part, as follows: > > So I await the testimonials from those who have been on it for a year or more and have maintained a statistically significant weight loss. 🙂 > > And this does not include any possible deleterious effects from the diet in the even longer run. One year is not enough to determine that. The NEJoM had two studies also. All of the studies thus far have only been for about 6mo\>1 year. There is a very good reason for that- after 6 months the number of dudes that stayed on ANY diet was too small. The Atkins diet has proven to be better at losing wieght (compared to a “low fat” diet) and perfectly healthy over a 6 mo to 1 year period. True, most dieters slipped off around then-\* no matter what diet they were on\* . Very very few stay on any diet longer than that. If you define “long term” as 10 years- you won’t see too many studies liek that, as too many drop off and no one wants to wait 10 years to publish, either. I would be suprised to see a 10 year study of a “low fat” diet either. I get on Atkins, lose 20 pounds over 6 months or less, go back off for a month or two- gain back 10- go back on for six months, etc. Although I have not lost a large amount of wieght over all- I am no longer gaining 2\>5 pounds every year like I was. Over a year, I lost 10 pounds. Not great, but during the 6 months “on” I had no problems staying on the diet. Easter & Xmas dooms me. From Jan 4th \>Easter I lost 20 pounds. I have since regained almost 10. Next week I go back on until Thanksgiving. My only exercise is walking. Absolutely, if you are going to be a long distance runner or something, you want to use “carbo loading”. But for the “casual-stay-healthy-20\>30min-every-day” type of exercise- Atkins is fine. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/54 "2004-05-09T21:57:38Z")
Thanks, \*\* Q.E.D.\*\*, you beat me to the punch. **ZipperJJ** > [@](#): > > You get to eat good foods… Hmmmm. Is a mostly protein and fat diet good foods? I wonder. That goes against conventional wisdom, which recommends veggies (mostly carbs), fruits (a lot of carbs), and grains (again carbs) as the stalwart of a good diet. Somewhere in the future, people will be shaking their heads and muttering, “How stupid we were.” But that’s IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/55 "2004-05-09T22:40:53Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Hmmmm. Is a mostly protein and fat diet good foods? I wonder. [Why Atkins Works: Facts vs. Fallacy](http://atkins.com/why/debunking-the-myths.html) ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/56 "2004-05-10T00:10:17Z")
Hardly an objective article, and it is filled with non-facts and fiction. > [@](#): > > Further, since people are often overweight specifically because of an overabundance of insulin… Got the cart before the horse here. Insulin is not able to reach the cells in many cases because of obesity, which interferes with the insulin receptors’ efficacy. I won’t even mention the previous non-fact that there are two fuel delivery systems, as there are four, since I realize that that may just a simplification. > [@](#): > > While some people who do Atkins may eat fewer calories than before, it is certainly not because the program limits calorie intake. Instead, they may end up eating fewer calories because they are generally less hungry and no longer obsessed with food… Or because the diet is so boring, perhaps? > [@](#): > > The food eaten by a person doing Atkins (meat, fish, cheese, nuts, eggs and low-sugar/low-starch vegetables and fruits) is less processed and more nutritious than on the typical… In the first place, “low-sugar/low-starch vegetables and fruits” is an oxymoron, since that produce is mostly carbs and water. Labeling of foods nowadays refers to “net carbs,” which is the total grams of carbs minus fiber and sugar alcohols. Sugar alcohols are not digested in the small intestine, but are digested by fermentation in the large intestine. Non-soluble fiber is not digested. Nobody recommends processed foods to the exclusion of non-processed. I, personally, always buy whole-wheat bread. Sometimes it is hard to find them. You have to read the labels. > [@](#): > > Additionally, numerous companies (including Atkins Nutritionals, Inc.) have introduced controlled carbohydrate versions of bars, shakes, syrups, candy, chips, desserts, bread, ice cream and more. It has never been easier to stay with an eating plan that offers you the full spectrum of delicious foods in quantities that leave you satisfied. Nothing like a little plug. Those foods contain sugar alcohols. > [@](#): > > The evidence showing that overproduction of insulin is responsible for most weight gain is quite impressive… See above. Where is this impressive evidence? > [@](#): > > Moreover, low-fat diets are typically deficient in foods that are high in the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K and the essential fatty acids (EFA). The EFAs are, in fact, our number one deficiency in this country. Low-fat adherents also may be low in the nutrients we get from meat, such as vitamin B12 and carnitine. And if people overeat foods made from white flour—which is often the case on low-fat diets—they will be low in half the B-complex nutrients (the half that isn’t included in the mandatory enrichment) and most of the essential minerals. Noone recommends eliminating protein or fats. Some fats are essential, such as found in fish, nuts, etc. As to white flour, see above. > [@](#): > > And those people who consume a full vitanutrient program are much less likely to feel weak or tired, even at the start of Atkins. Another pitch for their vitanutrient program. > [@](#): > > A good deal of compelling evidence points in the opposite direction. > > A growing body of scientific literature demonstrates that a controlled carbohydrate eating plan, if followed correctly, promotes heart health and improves clinical health markers. One study, conducted by Jeff S. Volek, M.S., R.D., Ph.D., while at Ball State University, showed the positive effects of a controlled carbohydrate nutritional approach on triglyceride levels. The study consisted of 12 healthy men, ages 20 to 55, who followed a controlled carbohydrate program adhering to the Atkins protocols for eight weeks. Upon completion of the study, each participant lowered his triglyceride levels by an average of 55 percent1. > > Furthermore, this study showed that a higher-carbohydrate diet results in increased levels of triglycerides and decreased levels of HDL (“good”) cholesterol. “Compelling evidence,” “A growing body of scientific literature,” etc., catch-all phrases without any substantiation. Twelve men hardly consists of compelling evidence or a growing body of scientific literature. Eight weeks?! No comment. You know what raises HDL? Primarily exercise… and a little alcohol won’t hurt. 🙂 One can exercise w/o carbs, but not strenuously. Fat takes longer to convert into fuel than sugar. And you need oxygen in good supply for the utilization. When you are breathing hard, trying to suck in oxygen, and go into oxygen debt (perhaps), you will not be able to use fat; if you don’t have enough glucose, you will not be able to do it. So, you don’t want to exercise hard? OK. But raising your HR to at least 60% of max is optimal for cardiovascular benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/57 "2004-05-10T00:23:55Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > In the first place, “low-sugar/low-starch vegetables and fruits” is an oxymoron, since that produce is mostly carbs and water. It is not a contradiction at all. The obvious mistake you are making is in equating carbs with sugar and starches. You are probably well aware that sugars and starches are only two **types** of carbs. Leafy vegetables (lettuce, spinach, etc.) _are_ low-sugar, low-starch vegetables. Peas, and potatoes are high-starch vegetables. Carrots are high-sugar vegetables. Sweet corn is both high-starch and high-sugar. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/58 "2004-05-10T00:49:44Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Sugar alcohols are not digested in the small intestine, but are digested by fermentation in the large intestine. The point is the effect that sugar alcohols have on raising insulin levels. Absorbed polyols (sugar alcohols) are converted to energy by processes that require little or no insulin. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/59 "2004-05-10T02:04:28Z")
**One can exercise w/o carbs, but not strenuously.** I’ll keep that in mind tomorrow when I go burn 1,000 calories at the gym in about an hour and a half 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368/60 "2004-05-10T02:13:59Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > It is not a contradiction at all. The obvious mistake you are making is in equating carbs with sugar and starches. You are probably well aware that sugars and starches are only two **types** of carbs. Leafy vegetables (lettuce, spinach, etc.) _are_ low-sugar, low-starch vegetables. Peas, and potatoes are high-starch vegetables. Carrots are high-sugar vegetables. Sweet corn is both high-starch and high-sugar. I’ve always thought that “starch” is just a complex carb. There are only three types of sugars that I’m aware of: simple, compounds, and complex. Of course, there are many types of simple sugars: ribose, glucose, fructose, etc. Leafy veggies are mostly complex carbs (fiber). They are not low sugar/low starch. I don’t know what you mean by saying carrots are high-sugar but peas and potatoes are high-starch. All veggies are complex carbs, but with different glycemic indexes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/low-carb-diets/226368.md?page=4)