# Lower-class diets in the Victorian era **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 23, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855 "2012-05-23T17:35:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/21 "2012-05-24T17:33:21Z")
> [@Teacake](#): > > No we don’t. A pie is a pie and a pasty is a pasty. What people call them when they’re selling them in the States is another matter. I’ve never heard the terms used interchangeably, and I’ve been British all my life so far. Pies and pasties are different things in this part of the US at least. But I also think we’re about the only part of the US that has pasties, and one of the few where meat pies are relatively common. [Pasty](http://www.jeankayspasties.com/menu.php) (hover over “steak pasty” for better look.) [Meat Pies](https://www.google.com/search?q=tourtiere&hl=en&sa=X&pwst=1&prmd=imvnse&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=aXC-T9u2H4i22gWo4M2lDw&ved=0CHsQsAQ&biw=1187&bih=786). They both have similar ingredients, but a pasty is much coarser ground - the potatoes, onions, and rutabagas are in chunks and separate and distinct from the meat. Meat pies, at least around here, tend to be much finer ground and the herb/spice blend is vastly different than a pasty. They might look the same, but they eat different. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/22 "2012-05-24T17:49:06Z")
Regarding these pasties and pies… So then nothing has changed in England since Victorian times? They must be really f’n delicious. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/23 "2012-05-24T18:23:19Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > Regarding these pasties and pies… > > So then nothing has changed in England since Victorian times? They must be really f’n delicious. Like most foods they’re variable, but done right they are indeed delicious. Meat pies tend to have a runnier filling, with chunks of meat in gravy. Pasties have a drier filling, bound together with potato, as they are designed to be eaten with your hands (the pronounced crimped edge of the pastry was, according to legend, to give the tin miners something to grasp with their filthy mitts) and you don’t want loads of gravy spilling out. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/24 "2012-05-24T20:59:46Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > the potatoes, onions, and rutabagas are in chunks and separate and distinct from the meat. Ladies and gentlemen, please do not use the word “chunks” to refer to anything that is to be eaten. Or is that another British English thing? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/25 "2012-05-24T22:34:36Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Ladies and gentlemen, please do not use the word “chunks” to refer to anything that is to be eaten. > Or is that another British English thing? Huh? There’s nothing specifically British about using the culinary term “chunks”, which more or less means “roughly cubical segments of meat, fruit or vegetable of approximately one- or two-bite size”. It’s a very common term in American cookbooks and food marketing. (Never heard of [pineapple chunks](http://www.dole.com/EatRightLanding/EatRtProductIndex/Fruits/FrozenFruits/FrozenFruitsDetails/tabid/601/Default.aspx?contentid=1374)?) Just because you personally may associate the word “chunks” exclusively with vomit doesn’t mean that any other American shares your squeamishness. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![svd678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@svd678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/svd678)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/26 "2012-05-24T22:37:55Z")
You never buy pineapple chunks, or chunky peanut butter? ---
**Author:** ![Redfishhunter930](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Redfishhunter930](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redfishhunter930)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/27 "2012-05-24T23:20:32Z")
> **[Natchitoches meat pie](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natchitoches_meat_pie)** > > The Natchitoches meat pie is a regional meat pie from northern Louisiana, United States. It is one of the official state foods of Louisiana. > Ingredients include ground beef, ground pork, onions, peppers, garlic, oil, and a pie shell. Natchitoches meat pies are often fried in peanut oil because of that oil's high smoking temperature. A number of restaurants in the historic district in Natchitoches serve meat pies, and frozen pies are available from grocers in northern Louisiana. > It has a savory ... ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/28 "2012-05-24T23:23:37Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Ladies and gentlemen, please do not use the word “chunks” to refer to anything that is to be eaten. > Or is that another British English thing? I speak American, not British. And, like others have pointed out, “chunks” is pretty common when it comes to describing food. Chunk tuna, Chocolate chunks (like chips but larger/more square), and the aforementioned Chunky PB and pineapple chunks. I don’t associate “chunk” with vomit at all. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/29 "2012-05-25T00:29:22Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > I don’t associate “chunk” with vomit at all. But you knew what I was talking about. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/30 "2012-05-25T02:04:28Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > [Pie.](http://files.exclusivelyfood.com.au/uploaded_images/meatpie9-721060.JPG) > > [Pasty.](http://blog.kyliesgenes.com/wp-content/uploads/cornish-pasty.jpg) Pasties. Made you hover. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/31 "2012-05-25T02:20:08Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Pasties. > Made you hover. But I didn’t find the nasty thing I expected. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/32 "2012-05-25T03:21:13Z")
They ate a helluva lot of oysters, which could be served as fast food. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/33 "2012-05-25T20:45:20Z")
Hi **Athena.** I don’t know where you are in the US, but I’m originaly from East TN and my grandmother taught me how to make pasties. (Her family was from England.) She would make one per family member. She started with some rolled-out dough, about 8" square. In the center she put cubes of sirloin, cubed potatoes, and a little chopped onion. Salt & pepper and a pat of butter on top. Then she brought up the corners and crimped them together, leaving a little “mouth,” like a volcano, in which she poured some water, which basically cooked away because the pasties were moist but not wet—no gravy. Since I don’t know how many generations had passed since her family came over here, I don’t know how accurate her recipe still was, but that’s the one she taught me. I always wanted to add peas and/or carrots but she’d say, “That’s _not_ the recipe!” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/34 "2012-05-25T20:51:34Z")
Hope I didn’t hijack! I’m interested in what the regular diet was, too. I’ve got a cookbook of Medieval recipes and one that I read made me laugh. It starts, “First, kill a cow.” ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/35 "2012-05-25T21:03:16Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > Hi **Athena.** I don’t know where you are in the US, but I’m originaly from East TN and my grandmother taught me how to make pasties. (Her family was from England.) She would make one per family member. Oh, I didn’t mean that my area is the only area where people make pasties - obviously, they’re an old Cornish thing and anyone with English/Cornish ancestors probably know about them. We are, however, one of the few areas where they’re ubiquitous. There’s two pasty shops in my small town, several more within a 10 or 15 mile radius, and it’s not at all uncommon for churches and restaurants to make and sell pasties. I didn’t really know that pasties were less popular nationally than, say, hamburgers when I was a kid. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/36 "2012-05-25T21:12:57Z")
Two pages of basically arguing about chunks vs chunks, and a few good links. Oh! And arguing what the hell a meat pie is (a pasty, really?). I’m curious about this too. What would I be eating if I was lower class in Victorian England? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/37 "2012-05-25T21:22:36Z")
Round here during that time period it was basically potatoes, then no potatoes, then back to potatoes and more potatoes. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/38 "2012-05-25T21:40:28Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > Hi **Athena.** I don’t know where you are in the US, but I’m originaly from East TN and my grandmother taught me how to make pasties. (Her family was from England.) She would make one per family member. > > She started with some rolled-out dough, about 8" square. In the center she put cubes of sirloin, cubed potatoes, and a little chopped onion. Salt & pepper and a pat of butter on top. Then she brought up the corners and crimped them together, leaving a little “mouth,” like a volcano, in which she poured some water, which basically cooked away because the pasties were moist but not wet—no gravy. > > Since I don’t know how many generations had passed since her family came over here, I don’t know how accurate her recipe still was, but that’s the one she taught me. I always wanted to add peas and/or carrots but she’d say, “That’s _not_ the recipe!” 🙂 Was the meat cooked beforehand? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/39 "2012-05-25T21:44:40Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > I speak American, not British. And, like others have pointed out, “chunks” is pretty common when it comes to describing food. Chunk tuna, Chocolate chunks (like chips but larger/more square), and the aforementioned Chunky PB and pineapple chunks. I don’t associate “chunk” with vomit at all. Well, not until now. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855/40 "2012-05-25T22:58:30Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Well, not until now. > ☹ Fine. Blame it all on me! Everyone else does. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lower-class-diets-in-the-victorian-era/622855.md?page=3)