# Lowering the toilet seat for women - why? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 15, 2005, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064 "2005-08-15T05:40:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Geobabe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/geobabe/32/3908_2.png) [@Geobabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geobabe)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/101 "2005-08-16T00:02:26Z")
Let me also add that I don’t see why it should be such a big freaking issue–my personal opinion is that the seat is a _seat_ and therefore belongs in the down position, but I don’t get worked up about it if it’s up. By the same token, men really needn’t see a request to leave the seat down as some horrible oppression women are laying on them. ---
**Author:** ![Future\_days](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cab0a1/32.png) [@Future\_days](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Future_days)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/102 "2005-08-16T00:07:10Z")
You should put the seat down because you should also put the lid down before flushing, otherwise you get an aerosol of piss particles flying up and landing on things like toothbrushes etc. True fact. ---
**Author:** ![Geobabe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/geobabe/32/3908_2.png) [@Geobabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geobabe)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/103 "2005-08-16T00:08:50Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > But there you’re presuming “down” as the correct postion, making your arguement circular. I mean, imagine “up” were considered the correct position. I could make your same post replacing men with women, and down with up, and it would do nothing to answer the question of why “up” was the correct position. Because that’s just what logically makes sense to me. Seating surfaces, with the exception of theaters and stadiums, are normally horizontal. Since I don’t live in a stadium, it makes sense to me that toilet seats should be in the down, or horizontal, position. ---
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/104 "2005-08-16T00:14:35Z")
> [@Geobabe](#): > > The point I was getting at was so many men find the seat in a down position and think that they should be able to leave it up and the onus is on the woman to put it back down. Why? In addition to what Taber said, the onus is on the man to lift it, so why shouldn’t it be on the woman to lower it? We have to adjust it to fit our needs. It’s very one-sided to expect us to adjust it for your needs as well. And it’s not like the woman has to do most of the work. We do all of the lifting, and some of the lowering if we take a dump after taking a whiz. We do probably 60-70% of the work in a household with one male and one female. It’s like you’re blaming it on us for standing to urinate. Curse this God-forsaken penis! ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/105 "2005-08-16T00:53:24Z")
I keep reading, and I keep not seeing anything approaching an explanation of how you plunk your naked ass on an unverified surface. The closest I have seen is the “it’s has germs and so I won’t touch it with my hand to check” theory, and to be honest that just won’t fly. I get that lowering the seat is not a big deal, but given that it is a fact of life that on occasion this does not happen, I have to ask; was Pavlov wrong? How many times must a naked ass be dunked into filthy water before the human animal realizes that checking the surface before you plop your ass on it is pretty good standard operating procedure? For that matter, how did we survive so long as a species without the basic “look before you plop your reproductive and eliminative parts onto a surface” wiring? Is this, at last, the proof of a loving and nurturing God that I have been searching for? ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/106 "2005-08-16T00:54:58Z")
> [@snailboy](#): > > … It’s like you’re blaming it on us for standing to urinate. Curse this God-forsaken penis! That is worth exploring. ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/107 "2005-08-16T00:59:04Z")
The question I’ve always pondered is this - why do you need to lift the seat to pee, anyway? Because you were taught to do it that why, fine. But why? You lose an average of a couple of inches when the seat’s down compared to up, but the hole is still pretty damned massive. Is your aim really that bad? 😃 On a more serious note, I prefer the seat down but don’t have a shit-fit when hubby leaves it up. I pee in the dark, but there’s usually enough light to tell if it’s down or up. Hubby’s usually pretty good about putting the seat back down again, most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Geobabe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/geobabe/32/3908_2.png) [@Geobabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geobabe)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/108 "2005-08-16T00:59:05Z")
> [@snailboy](#): > > In addition to what Taber said, the onus is on the man to lift it, so why shouldn’t it be on the woman to lower it? We have to adjust it to fit our needs. It’s very one-sided to expect us to adjust it for your needs as well. Uh? So if you take something out of the cabinet, your wife should put it back, just so the division of labor is fair? Not finding that argument particularly persuasive. So you have to raise it AND lower it–funny that with my original point, I was adressing the men who argue, “Oh, but it’s not that hard to lower it!” I guess it IS that hard after all, huh? (But really, this just reinforces why keeping the lid down is a good idea; in addition to it being more sanitary, it precludes having this whole stupid argument in the first place. Everybody has to lift and then lower something to use the pot.) ---
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/109 "2005-08-16T01:55:09Z")
> [@Geobabe](#): > > Uh? So if you take something out of the cabinet, your wife should put it back, just so the division of labor is fair? Not finding that argument particularly persuasive. It depends on if the wife used it before it went back. If the husband retrieved it and both used it, then yes she should, although it’s probably not that big of a deal since it’s not happening several times a day. Still, this is yet again not quite the same. Suppose you and your (possibly hypothetical) husband drive the same car. Neither of you drive it significantly more than the other. Maybe you have a day job and he has a night job. However, he’s a foot taller than you. Do you really expect him to adjust the seat when he gets in the car and then attempt to adjust it again for you when he gets home? Why can’t you do a little of the work yourself? I thought love was about giving a little and taking a little, not expecting it all to go your way. > [@](#): > > So you have to raise it AND lower it–funny that with my original point, I was adressing the men who argue, “Oh, but it’s not that hard to lower it!” I guess it IS that hard after all, huh? I guess it is to women. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/110 "2005-08-16T01:56:32Z")
> [@Geobabe](#): > > (But really, this just reinforces why keeping the lid down is a good idea; in addition to it being more sanitary, it precludes having this whole stupid argument in the first place. Everybody has to lift and then lower something to use the pot.) Exactly right. I have adhered to this philosophy since my teen years, as it is completely fair, and carries all the numerous advantages of having the lid closed. (Stuff doesn’t fall in, it looks better, no toilet plume, etc…) Imagine my surprise when I moved in with a girl who responded exactly as described here: > [@blinx](#): > > I grew up in a household where I where supposed to put everything down, seat and cover and always do that, but now the girl I live with complains if I put the cover down. Apparently the toilet must always be in a ready position for the girl to use. My only conclusion is that women are either irrational or selfish about this subject. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/111 "2005-08-16T02:17:50Z")
It seems to me like one good solution to this would be those U-shaped seats that you see in public restrooms. Why don’t you ever see those in households? It seems like it would be a good compromise. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/112 "2005-08-16T02:18:37Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > And cats. Ever tried to wash a cat after she fell in the toilet (hell, for any reason)? Not fun. I already mentioned that. I was lucky to have skin left on my hands. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/113 "2005-08-16T02:33:42Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It seems to me like one good solution to this would be those U-shaped seats that you see in public restrooms. Why don’t you ever see those in households? It seems like it would be a good compromise. Is that why they’re open in front? So men can pee standing up and not make a mess? Huh. I did not know that. While I have also never seen one in a private home, [this site](http://www.homecenter.com/Searchproducts.asp?Manufacturer=&Color=&Shape_index=&config_index=Open+Front&PropList=Manufacturer%2CColor%2CShape_index%2Cconfig_index%2C&sSortProperty=&fSortAscending=True&sFreeText=&catalog_name=HomeCenter&category_name=Toilet+seats&=In+Progress...) lets you search by style - open or closed. There’s bunches of open ones for home use. I may have to make an investment… ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/114 "2005-08-16T06:15:56Z")
The U shape doesn’t correct for the dual-stream phenomenon. Best to just have everyone raise & lower every time. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/115 "2005-08-16T06:34:25Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I already mentioned that. I was lucky to have skin left on my hands. Hmm, I didn’t see your post when I replied. I tend to open a bunch of threads at once, I was probably looking at a version of this one that was an hour old when I posted about my cat. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It seems to me like one good solution to this would be those U-shaped seats that you see in public restrooms. Why don’t you ever see those in households? It seems like it would be a good compromise. I hate those. Description of sturmhauke’s U-seat toilet procedure follows. Viewer discretion is advised. If I need to take a dump in a toilet with a U-seat, I generally have to manually hold my junk down to keep piss from dripping down the outside of the toilet and onto my pants. Easier to just put the damn seat up. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/116 "2005-08-16T08:41:11Z")
> [@snailboy](#): > > Suppose you and your (possibly hypothetical) husband drive the same car. Neither of you drive it significantly more than the other. Maybe you have a day job and he has a night job. However, he’s a foot taller than you. Do you really expect him to adjust the seat when he gets in the car and then attempt to adjust it again for you when he gets home? This is the best analogy I’ve seen. Kudos. > [@Future days](#): > > You should put the seat down because you should also put the lid down before flushing, otherwise you get an aerosol of piss particles flying up and landing on things like toothbrushes etc. True fact. WTF is a “piss particle”? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/117 "2005-08-16T09:39:45Z")
I notice people have been wondering how on earth a woman can plonk down on something without looking at it. **Gentlemen of the SDMB** , I have a couple of questions for you. Did you habitually look at the chair you’re sitting in before sitting in it? Do you habitually look at the chair you usually eat meals in, especially if the meal in question is breakfast and you’re half-awake? Have you never sat down in a familiar chair only to encounter an unfamiliar obstruction, say a cat or a book or something? I’m a woman and I live alone, as I’ve done so for most of my adult life. Thus, the toilet seat at my place is usually down. The toilets I encounter in public are in women’s restrooms, therefore the seat is always down. (It may be draped in disgusting used toilet paper, but it’s down.) Therefore, the only circumstances under which I’m likely to encounter a toilet seat which is up is if I’m visiting the home of a gentleman or one or more gentlemen is visiting me. Of the two gentlemen who visit me on a regular basis and who’s homes I visit on a regular basis, I honestly can’t think of one occaision when one’s left the toilet seat up, and, mind you, this man stayed with me for a few months when his wife left him (not because he habitually left the seat up;) ). In other words, even allowing for the fact that I’m spending most of most weekends with the other gentlemen, about 75% of the time, I’m not going to have the opportunity to encouter a toilet seat which has been left up, especially not in my own home. I’ve been known to have to wake up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom. The location of the toilet hasn’t changed; the configuration of the relevant bits of my anatomy hasn’t changed. I know exactly how clean or dirty the toilet is because I clean it. I’m also not very awake if I need to tend to things in the middle of the night. Therefore, I will stumble to the toilet and plonk down without looking. Why should I? I know where everything is and how clean it is. Even when my brain has happily registered the presence of the gentleman sleeping next to me, at 4 in the morning, it doesn’t have the capability to make the connection between warm presence of the gentleman sleeping next to me (a good thing!) and the possibility that coldwater is lurking under an upturned lid (a bad thing!). Fortunately, my reflexes are operating better than my brain at that hour, so, on encountering porcelin, I stand up and put the lid down. To summarize at least 75% of the toilet seats I encounter are down; for most of that life, that figure has been considerably higher. Therefore, it’s not unreasonable for me to assume that the toilet seat will be down, especially if I’m not fully awake. I realize that figure is very different for men. I’ll also remind you that when I’m visiting the home of a gentleman, I do leave the toilet seat up if that’s the position I found it in. Respectfully and with a graceful curtsey, CJ ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/118 "2005-08-16T12:29:11Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > I notice people have been wondering how on earth a woman can plonk down on something without looking at it. **Gentlemen of the SDMB** , I have a couple of questions for you. Did you habitually look at the chair you’re sitting in before sitting in it? Do you habitually look at the chair you usually eat meals in, especially if the meal in question is breakfast and you’re half-awake? Have you never sat down in a familiar chair only to encounter an unfamiliar obstruction, say a cat or a book or something? Honestly? Yes. I do look before I sit anywhere. And, like I said, when I use the toilet at night, I use the sitting position. I have never once in my 30 years had my ass touch bare porcelain. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/119 "2005-08-16T12:55:07Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > So it can be used as a chair for other bathroom chores such as shaving legs, trimming toenails, etc. So you recommend shaving legs while sitting on the toilet lid, and not while sitting in the tub or on the side of the tub? I cannot believe that your reply is a serious one. A toilet lid is **not** designed as a chair. The seat of a proper chair is firmly attached to the back and legs. A toilet lid is attached with plastic fasteners that will fail under minimal horizontal pressure. > [@Fear Itself](#): > > Most guys think a lid on a toilet is highly impractical, and is the root of all sorts of household discord. It all depends on your point of view. I’m going to have to pull a\*\* Dio\*\* on you and ask for a cite for this. > [@Fear Itself](#): > > Oh come on! Nothing gets jammed in the toilet unless you refuse to reach in and pick it out of the water, and just hope it flushes down. You don’t do that, do you?!?!?!? You are simply wrong about this. All sorts of things fall into a toilet that either cannot be retrieved, or are not brought to the attention of a responsible adult. I say this as a man who does carpentry and home maintenace for a living. I don’t mind sticking my hand into toilet water, but I would prefer not to. What exactly is so difficult about replacing the lid? Why is it so hard to understand that there needs to be a barrier between you and the toilet water? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064/120 "2005-08-16T13:05:34Z")
I live alone and I always put the toilet down before I flush. It avoids the “plume effect” and just plain looks better. Take a photo of yur toilet with the lid and cover up, with the lid down, and with the lid and cover down, and you’ll see what I mean. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lowering-the-toilet-seat-for-women-why/317064.md?page=7)