# Loyalty oath in Virginia **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 31, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903 "2011-12-31T01:45:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/21 "2011-12-31T17:24:04Z")
Virginia did this in the 2000 R primary too. It basically required me to affirm that this was the only primary in which I would vote. Seemed silly then and seems silly now. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/22 "2011-12-31T17:29:28Z")
Here’s a condemnation from 2008: > [@Registering with the "wrong" party to influence a primary](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/registering-with-the-wrong-party-to-influence-a-primary/442134/3): > > Voting in somebody’s primary specifically for the purpose of trying to achieve something that would be universally agreed upon by all _real_ members of the party to be a bad thing, seems to me to be morally equivalent to sneaking into somebody’s house and trying to trash the place - basically, you have to be a scumbag to do it, and it ought to be illegal. > > And that applies whether they left the door open, or you had to climb through a window to do it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/23 "2011-12-31T17:37:39Z")
When **begbert** comes into this thread and decries this loyalty oath, you will have maybe made a point. Until then, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/24 "2011-12-31T17:45:10Z")
Seriously, if I find a doper in one thread saying something that disagrees with a totally different doper in a thread four years later, can I make a bunch of backhanded accusations of hypocrisy to? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/25 "2011-12-31T17:56:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > When **begbert** comes into this thread and decries this loyalty oath, you will have maybe made a point. Until then, not so much. Look, this sounds like a fair comment, but there’s more here than what people type. There’s an overall tone. This is a place full of active participants; what was the reaction to begbert? Condemnation? More when I get to a real PC. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/26 "2011-12-31T18:15:22Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Virginia did this in the 2000 R primary too. It basically required me to affirm that this was the only primary in which I would vote. Seemed silly then and seems silly now. I support that (and for what it’s worth, I support closed primaries. It seems ridiculous to me that non-Republicans should vote in Republican primaries and non-Democrats in Democratic primaries, and voting in a primary of a party you don’t support is kind of skeevy, IMHO.) But this is different. This oath isn’t just requiring that you not vote in other primaries or that you be a Republican. It’s requiring that you support the Republican nominee, whoever he or she may be, in the general election. This rankles. Yellow dog Democrat that I am, I realize that it’s possible for someone to be a member of the party and vote for a Republican (see the “Reagan Democrats”), or an independent (see the “Lieberman Democrats” in CT), and no doubt the same is true for the Republican party. I’m sure that there are Republicans, good party members, who nevertheless, have voted for Democrats or independents from time to time. For the Virginia GOP to require that all their primary voters swear an oath that they will support the nominee, while it’s their right to do so, still rankles me a little. Of course, the oath has no legal significance, but it is a matter of conscience. I think that the GOP Republicans would be better to go to party registration and closed primaries than something like this. And I agree with the poster above who said that this is a clear anti-Paul measure. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/27 "2011-12-31T18:26:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Look, this sounds like a fair comment, but there’s more here than what people type. There’s an overall tone. This is a place full of active participants; what was the reaction to begbert? Condemnation? Did you read the thread **begbert** posted to? I think its silly to try and see whether one group of dopers agrees with another group of dopers four years later as if it means anything, but FWIW, the consensus there seems pretty close to the one here (which I disagree with): the state shouldn’t bar voters from crossing party lines in primaries. > [@Shakespeare](#): > > Although I can’t imagine vesting enough confidence in party loyalties, I don’t think it should be illegal, or even chastised. > [@sleestak](#): > > I see no problem with this. > [@Doors](#): > > So, in a country where the mantra is “Let’s make every vote count”, you get upset because some voters choose to have their votes count rather than wasting them on a candidate that needs no more votes? > [@Otaku](#): > > I think it’s a negative tactic, and one that I don’t like. But I don’t see it as all that important, either. > [@Chessic](#): > > I don’t see anything wrong with this. > [@Mosier](#): > > I have no problem with Republicans voting in Democrat primaries. > [@Troy](#): > > It’s shady, but considering that this fucked-up primary system allows for it, it’s kinda hard to complain. Even the OP in that thread, whose complaining about “Operation Chaos” seems to accept its OK for voters to cross party lines in an open primary, as is the case in VA. > [@Asmovian](#): > > It’s one thing to have open primaries where a member of one party is allowed by the rules to vote in the primary of a different party. If there’s a “tone” to the Dope which we must adhere to or be labeled hypocrites, I don’t think you very good at identifying what that “tone” is. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/28 "2011-12-31T18:32:03Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > But this is different. This oath isn’t just requiring that you not vote in other primaries or that you be a Republican. It’s requiring that you support the Republican nominee Its hard to say, since they don’t have the wording of the oath decided on yet. The wording the guy throws out in the article is “intends to support the GOP nominee” which seems to leave some wiggle room if they change their minds later, or if someone they don’t like gets nominated. But I agree that the oath should leave room for people to vote against the GOP without breaking their word. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/29 "2011-12-31T18:51:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Here’s a condemnation from 2008: Uh huh. Where’s the “Make 'em sign a loyalty oath” part? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/30 "2011-12-31T19:38:34Z")
Aside from a general opposition to loyalty oaths, I have a problem with the wording here. I might very well choose to vote in the GoP primary, but if my candidate loses, by the time the general election gets here, I might vote for a Dem, or a Libertarian, or write in some other candidate. If the GoP nominates a candidate that I find unacceptable, I feel no obligation to support him. For that matter, even if the person I vote for in the primary wins, I have every right to vote for someone else in the general for any reason. Maybe the GoP nominee gets himself arrested for kiddie porn between the primary and the general. Maybe I have a change of heart. Whatever. It is none of anyone’s business. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/31 "2011-12-31T19:43:35Z")
The Counselor’s Aria, from the opera _La Trivia_, sung by Costco, smitten with forbidden love for the fiery flamingo dancer, Caramel. It is sung in basso profundo, with occasional intervals of counter-tenor, when his dollar store tighty whities pinch… (Tempo: Al dente, fresca) Costco: Everybody come see! The liberal hypocrisy! Chorus: Come see! Come see! Come see! Costco: Were it not for me, none of you would ever see The liberal hypocrisy Chorus: Come see! Come see! Come see! This actually sounds pretty good in the original Albanian, as it is sung to a tune very similar to _The Little Bummer Boy_. (“Shall I bum you out? Bummer-bum-bum With the same old shit just one more time, bummer bum bum…”) Historians disagree as to whether the composer’s eccentric choice of Albanian over Italian resulted from dementia due to late-stage syphilis or his addiction to bacon salt. All agree, however, that it is the most deservedly forgotten opera of all time. . ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/32 "2011-12-31T19:46:24Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Aside from a general opposition to loyalty oaths, I have a problem with the wording here. I might very well choose to vote in the GoP primary, but if my candidate loses, by the time the general election gets here, I might vote for a Dem, or a Libertarian, or write in some other candidate. Well, again the wording is “intend”, which presumably covers you if you change your mind. (looking at the article again, I guess the wording is final, not still being decided like I said earlier) ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/33 "2011-12-31T20:13:14Z")
The is something creepy about a Loyalty Oath. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/34 "2011-12-31T20:16:31Z")
Well, the Republican Party is counting the chickens come home to roost. The years of deals and dog-whistles to the Troglodyte Right, their exploitation of fear mongering about your Uncle Fred marrying his boyfriend. The tail isn’t just wagging the dog, the tail is slamming the dog into the wall with a brisk staccato rythym. Karl Rove has amassed a metric buttload of money, great hulking gobs of anonymous cash. To pour like oil over the head of the Anointed One. Michelle “Bug-Eyes” Bachman? The guy who wants to make heroin legal? The perpetual candidate with a thousand faces, the candidate carved out of mayonaisse? Newt “Are You Fuckin’ Kidding Me?” Gingrinch? Wouldn’t it be wonderful, wouldn’t if fill your heart with joy, to see Karl Rove spend ten times the money the Republicans have ever spent! and fail! Now, Universe, I know I haven’t been a very good pantheist, but if you could just give me this one sign… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/35 "2011-12-31T20:26:58Z")
> [@j666](#): > > The is something creepy about a Loyalty Oath. I’m thinking more along the lines of “pathetic”. But I can understand the rational behind closed primaries. It’s just that if you want a closed primary, put one in place. It’s not rocket surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/36 "2011-12-31T20:36:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Seems to me that Rush Limbaugh once exhorted his listeners to vote to screw up the Democratic primaries… If Republicans do it to Democrats, I would be a damn fool not to do it to Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/37 "2011-12-31T20:44:25Z")
I can see their problem, a whole bunch of bright eyed baby Libertarians, are going to declare themselves Republicans. And when they lose (not “if”, but “when”) they are not very likely to vote Republican, but to follow wherever Ron Paul meanders off to. And the Troglodyte Right, its hour come round at last, slouches off to Virginia to be re-born. “We’ve been loyal all these years, and all those years it was going to be next year when we ban gays, and evolution, and fucking! Here’s the bill, we own your ass…” Trouble is, even as I chuckle, it worries me… ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/38 "2011-12-31T21:05:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m thinking more along the lines of “pathetic”. > > But I can understand the rational behind closed primaries. It’s just that if you want a closed primary, put one in place. It’s not rocket surgery. I do agree about the primary, closed or open, pick one. But I do not see the oath as just pathetic; it is a clear statement that to the Republican Party, party trumps country. The suggestion that voters should commit to voting for the party rather than the best candidate is appalling. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/39 "2011-12-31T21:05:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Look, this sounds like a fair comment, but there’s more here than what people type. There’s an overall tone. Holy Christ, now I know how I know you. You’re my ex-girlfriend from freshman year of college, right? The one who said, “It isn’t what you said, it’s _how you said it_ that makes me mad at you!” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903/40 "2011-12-31T21:08:03Z")
Don’t try and kid us, you went totally “yes, dear”. A slave to that booty. Know a bunch of guys like that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loyalty-oath-in-virginia/607903.md?page=3)