# Lucas "Fixing" Star Wars **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 22, 2004, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421 "2004-09-22T02:07:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/101 "2004-09-28T20:22:51Z")
> [@Rainbowthief](#): > > It’s funny as an acronym: **Star Wars ROTS** > > I’m one of the ones who believe Lucas is just luring customers–er, fans–into double dipping when he claims he’ll never release the original version of the trilogy on DVD. The cost excuse is pure bullshit. If millions of fanboys are begging him to release the damn thing, then obviously there’s money to be made from it. Are there millions of fanboys begging for this? I’m skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/102 "2004-09-28T20:23:31Z")
> [@Rainbowthief](#): > > I’m one of the ones who believe Lucas is just luring customers–er, fans–into double dipping when he claims he’ll never release the original version of the trilogy on DVD. Interesting tidbit: I’m reorganizing my video shelves, and I stumbled across the original container box for the videotapes of the trilogy released several years before the special editions came out. And it says on the back (don’t have it in hand, so paraphrased): “This is the final release of the original versions of these films.” So Lucas’s story has been consistent for well over a decade, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/103 "2004-09-28T20:38:04Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Are there millions of fanboys begging for this? I’m skeptical. I agree. Also, if fanboys want to spend their money, then why shouldn’t Lucas wring the dollars out of them. No on ei sputting a gun to their heads. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/104 "2004-09-28T20:53:56Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > No on ei sputting a gun to their heads. Is that some kind of Rodian patois? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/105 "2004-09-28T21:05:18Z")
There are a few partially-filmed things that I _would_ like to see finished/restored. Like that bit in ESB where Threepio takes the warning sign down off the Wampa holding pen during the evacuation of Hoth, laying a trap for the invading troopers. That’s pretty cool, and it’s a shame that only unexplained vestiges of it found their way into the movie. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/106 "2004-09-28T21:30:09Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > :rolleyes: Yeah, and I’m sure there are no mystical religions that exist in that time either that differentiate good from evil, with concepts of after lives, and…oh, wait. Well, AFAIK there’s no “Hell” in the Jedi religion. And I didn’t say I was cutting myself over it or anything, it just catches my ear, sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/107 "2004-09-28T21:56:05Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > Well, AFAIK there’s no “Hell” in the Jedi religion. But the Jedi religion is only embraced by a scarce remnant of cultists at the time of ESB,and Han is hardly likely to let the tenets of a religion he dismisses as “hokey” limit his speech. So neener-neener. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/108 "2004-09-29T02:46:59Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > But the Jedi religion is only embraced by a scarce remnant of cultists at the time of ESB,and Han is hardly likely to let the tenets of a religion he dismisses as “hokey” limit his speech. > > So neener-neener. 😛 Er, my original point was that it bugged me because there’s presumably no Christianity in the distant past of a far galaxy, and therefore no “Hell”, let alone the modern colloquialism of “I’ll see you in Hell”. I just brought up the Jedi thing because ArchiveGuy pointed out that he might be referencing some concept held by people in the universe, and I responded that I’m not familiar with any such concept, let alone one they specifically call “Hell”. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/109 "2004-09-29T03:19:22Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > Er, my original point was that it bugged me because there’s presumably no Christianity in the distant past of a far galaxy, and therefore no “Hell”, let alone the modern colloquialism of “I’ll see you in Hell”. I don’t see your point. Our speech is rife with colloquialisms that no longer mean anything; usually the original meaning isn’t known to the speaker and in some cases (“the whole nine yards”) there is nobody who knows for certain what it meant. “Tie one on.” “Tip” “On the lam” “the third degree” Few people know what any of those things originally meant. It’s reasonable to suppose “go to hell” or “I’ll see you in hell” is a common euphemism for “get bent” or “go screw yourself” in the Star Wars universe that may once have had a literal meaning but no longer does. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/110 "2004-09-29T05:08:37Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > Er, my original point was that it bugged me because there’s presumably no Christianity in the distant past of a far galaxy, and therefore no “Hell”, let alone the modern colloquialism of “I’ll see you in Hell”. Well, sure – but this is really straining at gnats. _Star Wars_ doesn’t presume to any sort of realism. It’s prefaced with “A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away” precisely in order to cue the audience to put away such concerns, by echoing the traditional [preambles to Folk Tales](http://www.folktale.net/openers.html).[ul][li]A great while ago, when the world was full of wonders…[_]A long time ago - and yet perhaps it wasn’t such a very long time ago…[_]A long time ago, the old people say…[_]Far away and just as long ago…[_]Far, far away, beyond all sorts of countries, seas, and rivers, there stood a splendid city…[_]Far, far away in Russia, very long ago, there lived…[_]In a place, neither near nor far, and a time, neither now nor then…[_]Long ago and far away, across the western sea…[_]Many hundred years ago in a country across the sea, there lived…[\*]Once upon a time, a long long time ago, when mice ran after cats and lions[/li]were chased by rats…[li]Once upon a time, in a time and place beyond measure…[/ul]It’s not meant literally, it’s meant to establish that the story is a fable.[/li] If you obsessively read folk tales as an adult (Mudd looks at his feet guiltily) you will recognize plenty of faerie tale archetypes being repeated in _Star Wars_. An wizard, disguised as a tramp, informs an orphan that, despite his apparently humble origins, there’s something special about him. He’s given a magical weapon at the start of his quest. He has a small familiar and some unlikely companions to aid him, and together, with the aid of magic, the overcome sinister, seemingly unstoppable forces – but only after the hero resists great temptation. The main agonist is overcome not by force, but by the virtue of the hero’s pure heart, &c &c… It’s made of the same stuff as _Parsifal_, or _The Chymical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz_ or _Childe Rowland_ – not to mention the debt to _The Wizard of Oz_ and all that. Grimms’ Fairytales are full of eighteenth century colloquialisms although they are largely set in an ancient neverland. Andrew Lang’s collections speak of lost times with the tongue of the nineteenth century. It’s necessary for communication. If we edited out everything from the _Star Wars_ movies that mightn’t credibly exist “A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away,” the result would be a bit… …thin. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rainbowthief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4bbf92/32.png) [@Rainbowthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rainbowthief)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/111 "2004-09-29T05:58:54Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Like? I think the OT is remarkably free of such examples (unlike the prequels, which I believe indulge in it quite a bit). Or were you expecting them to speak in some formal, pseudo-archaic-sounding language (like, say, Yoda)? Like this: > [@shy guy](#): > > One that always bugs me in is ESB when Han tells that one guy “Then I’ll see you in Hell!” right before he goes after Luke on Taun Taun. There are plenty of other examples, but that’s one of the ones that I found most distracting. First of all, why would the concept of hell exist in some far off galaxy? And if it did, wouldn’t they call it something else? It’s science fiction! Lucas went to the trouble of creating hundreds of goofy looking alien species and even gave Jabba the Hut his own language, but couldn’t be bothered to at least have the humanoids sound like they weren’t raised in North America? Was it that hard for him to write screenplays where the characters didn’t use words like “hey,” “guy” or “kid”? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/112 "2004-09-29T08:01:33Z")
> [@Rainbowthief](#): > > Lucas went to the trouble of creating hundreds of goofy looking alien species and even gave Jabba the Hut his own language, but couldn’t be bothered to at least have the humanoids sound like they weren’t raised in North America? Was it that hard for him to write screenplays where the characters didn’t use words like “hey,” “guy” or “kid”? Again, this is deliberate. The look and feel of the film is based on adventure serials from the '30s and '40s. It’s a synthesis of space operas, wild west three-reelers, spy stories, and adventure series, (with a little bit of '50s Samurai epic thrown in for good measure.) Of _course_ they use American accents – to match the form. Same goes for the cheesy titles and transitions and the classical-sounding soundtrack. It looks like _Red Ryder_, _Flash Gordon_ and every other classic kids’ fantasy-adventure movie because Lucas wanted to make the ultimate children’s story. Luke’s an orphaned farmboy being raised by a stern aunt & uncle, who moons over the prospect of exotic places before being whisked off by adventure… (put him in a blue gingham dress and you’ll recognize him soon enough.) Han Solo is a bootlegger with a “noble savage” sidekick. We’ve [met Leia before](http://www.notdolls.com/megoknockoff/mego/flash/megodaleardenmoc.jpg). These characters have American accents and use American idiom because they’re based on iconic American forms. (Even Threepio was supposed to be dubbed over with a cowboy accent, but Anthony Daniel’s performance cracked everyone up so they decided to keep it.) Heck, Tatooine was called “ **Uta** po **h** ” until the name was changed to mirror a Tunisian city near one of the location shoots. 😃 > [@](#): > > Why would the concept of hell exist in some far off galaxy? And if it did, wouldn’t they call it something else? Eh, Luke mutters “Oh, God,” a couple of times, too. So what? \*“OMG! Luke and Han are both human beings! How stupid is that?” \*😛 Seriously, just from a storytelling point of view, making up new words for familiar concepts would be needlessly distracting --especially for bits of idiom that people typically use without giving any thought to their literal meaning. Substitute “I’ll see you in Wonfor” for “I’ll see you Hell,” and you create the need to insert awkward exposition – or repeat it enough so that people can pick it up through context, which means they’ll spend a bit of time working that out instead of just following the story. If you’re going to object to casual use of basic religious concepts that are familiar, you may as well go over the whole script with a red pen. Why would Han deride Luke’s piloting experience as “crop-dusting?” Even if they developed agriculture and aerially-distributed pesticides, wouldn’t they call it something else? Why is Han’s ship called the “Falcon?” Obviously, falcons are local to these parts. Same reason _Flash Gordon_ had alien “Hawk-men,” I guess. Practically nothing about _Star Wars_ is plausible in any sort of literal way. Why single out ludicrous minute details? It’s a fairy-tale, a nostalgia-trip, obsessive film-student porn, and escapist fantasy. Complaining that it doesn’t meet your expectations of what “A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away” would _really_ be like is missing the point in a big way. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/113 "2004-09-29T12:02:09Z")
> [@Kel Varnsen - Latex Division](#): > > Revenge of the Shit? Thank you, I’ll be here all week. Don’t forget to tip your server, and drive home safely. y’ hear? ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/114 "2004-09-29T12:06:37Z")
> [@Dooku](#): > > Kel Varnsen - Latex Division]Revenge of the Shit? The Fight Overseen? Eighteenth Of Revs? Five Hens Together? Fever Is Thee Thong? [/QUOTE] Five Hens Together. I submit, in admiration. {You’re not just running this through an anagrammiser, are you?} ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/115 "2004-09-29T12:41:00Z")
> [@Rainbowthief](#): > > Lucas went to the trouble of creating hundreds of goofy looking alien species and even gave Jabba the Hut his own language, but couldn’t be bothered to at least have the humanoids sound like they weren’t raised in North America? What about the added scene in Ep IV where Han says “Jabba, you’re a lovely human being”? That even annoys me. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/116 "2004-09-29T14:41:18Z")
> [@interface2x](#): > > What about the added scene in Ep IV where Han says “Jabba, you’re a lovely human being”? That even annoys me. Come on. That’s funny. The interesting thing is that when Special Edition came, I loved it. New scenes added? Great. Cool. We’ll get to see more _Star Wars_ material. How could it possibly be bad? And, of course, it wasn’t (well, except from Greedo shooting first). Even if it had been bad, I wouldn’t have cared much. He could have put an Ewok orgy scene in there and you wouldn’t have seen me on any message boards registering my disgust. I didn’t care much about Greedo shooting first either. It was clearly billed as _Star Wars Special Edition_ and we all received it as such. But now he puts changes into the movies clandestinely and bills the result as _Star Wars_, nothing else, while refusing to release the originals. He’s pretending that this is _Star Wars_. That’s what’s bothering me. If he called this _Star Wars Extra-Super-Special Edition_ and announced that there were lots of changes, I’d have no problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/117 "2004-09-29T15:47:30Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Are there millions of fanboys begging for this? I’m skeptical. I agree. I don’t think there’s a basis for inferring a demand by “millions” from the bleatings on message boards. People on message boards tend to be: a) more vocal; b) more passionate; and c) more likely, without any justification, to think that their opinions are the mainstream than those who just go on through life without being aware of message boards. If one went by message boards, it would seem like everyone has turned against “The Simpsons” and it should be in danger of imminent cancellation. Don’t see that happening. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/118 "2004-09-30T03:37:46Z")
One of the more contentious issues about Lucas’ changes has finally been settled… …in [_The Emperor’s Court_](http://perso.club-internet.fr/willow/Greedo_Comic/Greedo_Comic_01.htm). “Back, and to the right… Back, and to the right.” Heh heh. Brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/119 "2004-09-30T05:23:14Z")
> [@](#): > > First of all, why would the concept of hell exist in some far off galaxy? And if it did, wouldn’t they call it something else? What kind of complaint is this? Of course they’d call it something else! But then, they’d also call “spaceships” something else, and they’d call “bounty hunters” something else, and they’d call “sand” something else, too. If they had been accurate about it, there wouldn’t have been a word of English in the whole film. We have to accept the notion that “Basic” in the film (the official common language of the Empire) has been translated to English, complete with idioms corresponding to whatever idioms the adventurers would have used. As for the _concept_ of Hell, most human cultures have some notion of “unpleasent place you go after death if you’re bad”, so I don’t see why it’s a stretch to have long-ago-far-away humans having such a concept, either (at least, any more of a stretch than having humans there at all). And I’ve heard plenty of atheists use similar expressions, so that’s not an argument against Solo using it, either. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421/120 "2004-09-30T06:44:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What kind of complaint is this? Of course they’d call it something else! But then, they’d also call “spaceships” something else, and they’d call “bounty hunters” something else, and they’d call “sand” something else, too. And then, we’d have _Battlestar Galactica_. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucas-fixing-star-wars/265421.md?page=7)