# 'luci Reports to Ms Persson's Office for Scolding and Correction **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 7, 2006, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622 "2006-10-07T17:32:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/201 "2006-10-08T14:59:44Z")
**Dio** , do you really think anybody who’s argued with **elucidator** in this thread is confused about his political stance or thinks he’s pushing for discriminatory treatment of -hell, anybody? Most of us don’t care about the “political correctness” of his jokes, either. (Even **Stoid** says that explicitly.) Do you not think that it’s just as arguable a position that _exclusion_ of a bloc of sexual transgressors from consideration of protection damages equal rights for all as it is that unnecessary inclusion of a group does so (which is **'luci** ’s argument)? **elucidator** may think the label is so poorly defined that the group described by it has no basis in fact, but medical and social authorities he himself would not hesitate to cite in other cases don’t agree. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/202 "2006-10-08T15:04:46Z")
It is not about being squeamish about someone getting their todger chopped off. It is about denying the real feelings of a group of people, just because you don’t understand them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/203 "2006-10-08T15:17:37Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] What? Are you serious? Your point is proved by the fact that I’m a jackass? You can’t be serious. You must have something better than that. Any comment on the cites in this thread, for example? I mean, I know you’re another member of the Inside My Head the Light of Truth is Blinding club, but you can usually fake it better than this. [/QUOTE] I’m not arguing with the cites in this thread, dickhead. I’m not even agreeing with **elucidator’s** opinions _per se_, I’m objecting to people piling onto someone who agrees with them and supports them in every way that matters. There was an ancient Jewish sage who once said, “Whoever is not against us is for us.” Why attack people who aren’t trying to do you any harm? Why should I be shot in the knees for suggesting that a harmless old hippie – one who is already on your side – should probably be granted a little clemency for some outdated perceptions? All I’m saying is fight the real enemy, man. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/204 "2006-10-08T15:19:15Z")
[QUOTE=xenophon41] Do you not think that it’s just as arguable a position that _exclusion_ of a bloc of sexual transgressors from consideration of protection damages equal rights for all as it is that unnecessary inclusion of a group does so (which is **'luci** ’s argument)? [/QUOTE] I haven’t seen **'lucy** argue any such thing. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/205 "2006-10-08T15:21:17Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I haven’t seen **'lucy** argue any such thing. [/QUOTE] Well, to be fair, he did hide it… right in the OP: > [@](#): > > _originally posted by **elucidator** :_ > > I don’t respect the term “transgendered” as having any real validity, I don’t feel compelled to offer respect. I think my bent brethren and sistren made a big mistake when they include the term on an equal footing, i.e., Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgendered Alliance. It’s the kind of mistake the angels make, from a surfeit of sincerity, but a mistake nonetheless. It weakens “our” case. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/206 "2006-10-08T15:24:57Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I’m not arguing with the cites in this thread, dickhead. I’m not even agreeing with **elucidator’s** opinions _per se_, I’m objecting to people piling onto someone who agrees with them and supports them in every way that matters. There was an ancient Jewish sage who once said, “Whoever is not against us is for us.” Why attack people who aren’t trying to do you any harm? Why should I be shot in the knees for suggesting that a harmless old hippie – one who is already on your side – should probably be granted a little clemency for some outdated perceptions? All I’m saying is fight the real enemy, man. [/QUOTE] Oh, that wasn’t about what you said. I just fucking hate you. Partly you are definitely part of the real enemy, yet you truly believe otherwise. It makes me sick to my stomach. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/207 "2006-10-08T15:26:53Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] Oh, that wasn’t about what you said. I just fucking hate you. Partly you are definitely part of the real enemy, yet you truly believe otherwise. It makes me sick to my stomach. [/QUOTE] Why don’t you take it to your own “shit on **Dio** ” thread then, and take it out of this one? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/208 "2006-10-08T15:28:04Z")
[QUOTE=rayh] It is not about being squeamish about someone getting their todger chopped off. It is about denying the real feelings of a group of people, just because you don’t understand them. [/QUOTE] Purely a gut feeling here, a WAG, but I suspect it’s the chopping off of bits bit that’s affecting **elucidator** ’s ability to grok the fullness. Og knows there are things that squick me about about some people’s beliefs and ways of living (hell, no, I ain’t specifying), that make it hard for me to understand why they’d ever want to believe/behave that way, but does that translate to condemnation or opposition, so long as those choices harm no one (except perhaps the ones so choosing)? Hell, no! Live and let live. Which sentiments go double when such differences are inborn rather than consciously chosen. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/209 "2006-10-08T15:29:45Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] Oh, that wasn’t about what you said. I just fucking hate you. Partly you are definitely part of the real enemy, yet you truly believe otherwise. It makes me sick to my stomach. [/QUOTE] How am I your enemy, dude? Name one right or freedom I’ve ever advocated trying to take away from you. Name one way I’ve ever tried to harm you. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/210 "2006-10-08T15:31:37Z")
[QUOTE=xenophon41] Why don’t you take it to your own “shit on **Dio** ” thread then, and take it out of this one? [/QUOTE] Oh, you want to play? Come sit on my lap, sugar, let me nibble on your ear. You’re adorable when you stomp your wee foot like that. What he spewed was just more despicable, intellectually dishonest bullshit. I know by now that arguing with him is pointless, because he’s locked into an infinite mental loop. Calling him on it is germane, since this thread is mostly about calling 'luci on similar dishonesty. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/211 "2006-10-08T15:32:48Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] How am I your enemy, dude? Name one right or freedom I’ve ever advocated trying to take away from you. Name one way I’ve ever tried to harm you. [/QUOTE] Do you honestly believe that only people who actively cause direct harm are part of the problem? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/212 "2006-10-08T15:34:13Z")
[QUOTE=xenophon41] Well, to be fair, he did hide it… right in the OP: [/QUOTE] He said he didn’t think it was a real condition and that maybe it shouldn’t be specifically part of the gay rights movement, but he still hasn’t advocated taking any rights away from them. Can anyone name one single protection that elucidator has claimed should be denied to TG people? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/213 "2006-10-08T15:34:57Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] Oh, you want to play? Come sit on my lap, sugar, let me nibble on your ear. You’re adorable when you stomp your wee foot like that. What he spewed was just more despicable, intellectually dishonest bullshit. I know by now that arguing with him is pointless, because he’s locked into an infinite mental loop. Calling him on it is germane, since this thread is mostly about calling 'luci on similar dishonesty. [/QUOTE] Sorry; snark don’t scare me. “Calling” **Dio** on a bad argument is germane. That horse left the stable when you told him “Oh, that wasn’t about what you said. I just fucking hate you.” Which immediately takes your bile out of the realm of “germane to the thread” and into “I’m a petty little asshole who wants to feud with another poster” territory. Dipshit. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/214 "2006-10-08T15:35:36Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] Do you honestly believe that only people who actively cause direct harm are part of the problem? [/QUOTE] You can also add people who do harm by inaction or indifference but neither elucidator nor I would fall into those categories either. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/215 "2006-10-08T15:38:06Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] He said he didn’t think it was a real condition and that maybe it shouldn’t be specifically part of the gay rights movement, but he still hasn’t advocated taking any rights away from them. Can anyone name one single protection that elucidator has claimed should be denied to TG people? [/QUOTE] **DtC** , you’re not usually this hard to talk to. Again, _I’m not arguing that **‘luci’** wants to deny rights to anyone_. His argument is that giving TG people the “same standing” (his words) as Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual people “hurts ‘our’ cause” (his words again), and that’s what is being disputed. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/216 "2006-10-08T15:46:35Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] You can also add people who do harm by inaction or indifference but neither elucidator nor I would fall into those categories either. [/QUOTE] Indeed, I would say that by advocating against proper treatment for transsexuals as luci has done here, he falls into the ‘active harm’ category. For crying oud loud, he said he wouldn’t want _his_ kid to be one, because he’d “want better” than mutilation for the kid. It may be ineffective, but I similarly feel that people who argue for homeopathy or other psuedo-science are doing active harm. Perpetuating ignorance is offensive at best, and dangerous a lot of the time. It is actually dangerous to advocate that a transsexual should not seek proper treatment; there is a ton of evidence demonstrating that any treatment but transition is overwhelmingly negative for the health of most TS people. And you’re here cheerleading the idea that as long as you’re gracious enough to grant the freaks their rights, it’s okay to call them delusional sickos. Furthermore, anyone who objects is an ingrate and a PC pussy. You do this all the time, and it’s fucking disgusting, man. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/217 "2006-10-08T15:51:31Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Og knows there are things that squick me about about some people’s beliefs and ways of living (hell, no, I ain’t specifying), that make it hard for me to understand why they’d ever want to believe/behave that way [/QUOTE] Preach it, sister. Some folks actually share their homes with demons like [this!](http://wgnradio.com/shows/kathy_judy/photos/dogsmile/chorus.jpg) Even worse, people have been known to allow [these kind of monsters](http://www.artesian-arts.org/graphics/artwork/Beverley%20Ashe/uglyhorse.jpg) to run free on their property. To quote the esteemed/maligned **elucidator** , no matter how fast you run, the weirdness runs faster. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/218 "2006-10-08T16:00:25Z")
[QUOTE=xenophon41] “Calling” **Dio** on a bad argument is germane. That horse left the stable when you told him “Oh, that wasn’t about what you said. I just fucking hate you.” Which immediately takes your bile out of the realm of “germane to the thread” and into “I’m a petty little asshole who wants to feud with another poster” territory. Dipshit. [/QUOTE] Eggs Ackley. I may think **Dio** is full of shit half the time, but I also think he is smart as a whip, and the other half of the time he is a font of information. FWIW, I suspect IRL we would get along just fine, even though I have butted heads with him a few times on this board. **Ensign Edison** would be a bit of a … challenge. One not worth the effort, most likely. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/219 "2006-10-08T16:00:37Z")
**Diogenes** : This has nothing to do with being liberal or PC. Reasonable people can disagree about whether the “T” in GLBT hurts or helps the GLB part politically, but that isn’t the heart of the issue in this thread. The heart of the issue is whether “T” is real or not. That’s a scientific question, not a political one. Had he not put this in his OP: > [@](#): > > Does it include such persons who claim to be souls of one gender trapped in the body of another? Can’t buy it, don’t believe it, doesn’t make sense. ImhO, the only result for a surgical alteration of gender is mutilation. I doubt that I would even have bothered with this thread. He has consistently conflated the roles of the brain and the genitalia in this thread, and some people are tyring to clear that up. That’s all; and it’s about good science, not good politics. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622/220 "2006-10-08T16:03:27Z")
[QUOTE=rayh] It is not about being squeamish about someone getting their todger chopped off. It is about denying the real feelings of a group of people, just because you don’t understand them. [/QUOTE] Are you saying guys aren’t squicked by the though of getting their todgers topped off? Are you actually trying to maintain that this doesn’t to some extent affect the way guys think about this topic? 'Cause, you know, if so, you’re completely out in left field. And I, too, worry about a board where Elucidator isn’t liberal enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luci-reports-to-ms-perssons-office-for-scolding-and-correction/375622.md?page=12)