# Lucifer... or Satan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 9, 2000, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucifer-or-satan/21876 "2000-06-09T15:29:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2000, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucifer-or-satan/21876/21 "2000-06-10T17:40:44Z")
> [@](#): > > originally posted by gigi: > I’m not sure people become devils any more than they become angels. Humans retain their humanity after death so if relegated to hell, become unredeemed people. Opposite of a saint…? You were right, gigi. Thank you for correcting my error. Humans that go to hell are referred to by “damned souls”, the term devil should be reserved for the fallen angels that followed Lucifer’s rebellion. See the Catholic Encyclopedia articles: [Devil](http://newadvent.org/cathen/04764a.htm) [Demons](http://newadvent.org/cathen/04710a.htm) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2000, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucifer-or-satan/21876/22 "2000-06-10T20:11:24Z")
OK. The identification of “the Devil” (diabolus, etc.) with “Satan” (literally, the “Accuser”) is, so far as I know, only explicitly made in one commonly accepted book of the New Testament: The Revelation to John, a.k.a. the Apocalypse. Big problem here: The Apocalypse is a freaky mess. Anyway, the serpent in Genesis appears to be a snake, not a dragon. The dragon (a major character) in the Apocalypse is referred to as “that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray.” This fits pretty well with the typical Christian “Satanology” (if I may coin a word)–as follows: “Satan”=“the tempter of man”=“the enemy of God”=“the Devil” The Devil is a fallen angel who has stepped into a game try at an Ahriman (god of evil) role–of course, he’s not a God, so he’s doomed, but he has dominion over the souls of the dead, and first tempts them (in life) then torments them (in Hell). I don’t buy it. Satan in the Book of Job is not portrayed explicitly as enemy to God, nor as a advocate of sin. While this is one interpretation, another is that he is merely a being cynical about the righteousnesss of man–a kind of “enemy” of man, perhaps, but not necessarily an enemy of God. This is at odds with the view in some forms of Satanism (& certain trashy Hollywood movies) which claims that Satan is in favor of liberty–and on your side against an oppressive and punishing God. If Satan has charge of punishing the evil in Hell, then he is the one who punishes. (The Mormon view, I am told, is almost opposite that of the Satanist: Satan/Lucifer is a legalist, Jesus/Christ/Jehovah a libertarian; while I am not LDS, I find this somewhat plausible.) As for the original post: I quote myself, about to post to another thread on this board: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=21994&pagenumber=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=21994&pagenumber=2) “Was the Devil ever in hell?”: > [@](#): > > \*\* > The Bible seems to indicate clearly that “Lucifer” and “Satan” are one and the same, although the name “Lucifer” only appears once in it. However, if you compare Isaiah 14:12 ( **"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! . . .** ) to Luke 10:18 ( **". . . I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.**") So if Joseph Smith was “bearing false witness,” you have to accuse Jesus of doing the same. > \*\* I have to mention this: Parallelism is not identity. If Clemy says, “I heard the Kingfish slipped on a banana peel, and everyone laughed.”–and Leroy says, “I saw W.C. Fields slip on a banana peel in a picture show.”–that does not mean that the Kingfish is W.C. Fields. There is nothing here to indicate that Lucifer=Satan. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2000, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucifer-or-satan/21876/23 "2000-06-10T21:21:45Z")
There’s also the weird thing of associating “demonic” names with the seven deadly sins (read: pernicious human drives). Lucifer=pride (“I’m so brilliant!”) Satan=wrath or hatred (“I hate you!”) Asmodeus (from Zoroastrian myth?)=lust (“I want you to want me!”) Mammon (from Aramaic word for wealth)=avarice (“I want more, more, more!”) Beelzebub (see below)=gluttony (“Feed me!”) Belphegor (???)=sloth (“Let me be!” and “I don’t wanna!”) and Leviathan (see below)=envy (“I wish we had what they have!”) “Beelzebub” means “lord of the flies.” I think it started as a mocking name for a pagan god called something like “Beelzebul” meaning “great lord” or some such. “Leviathan” is a term used in Job for a dragon or sea monster–a sea dragon, not a demon. And of course, the OT doesn’t deal with a Devil figure much; it’s usually the people of Israel (and their god) versus other nations (and their gods). “Whose god is the best?” kind of stuff, vaguely henotheistic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lucifer-or-satan/21876.md?page=1)