# Lucky's to Customers - Tough you got ripped off **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539 "2011-12-08T18:27:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/21 "2011-12-09T12:51:45Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > Does it have the brew that is true? No, but the thief caused the grief that made Lucky’s go all fucky. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/22 "2011-12-09T12:54:34Z")
Just remember it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/23 "2011-12-09T13:02:33Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > - Debit card stolen along with PIN: thief can wipe out your entire account. There’s not a damn thing you can do about it, and you have no recourse. Not entirely true. You can certainly contact the bank that issued the debit card and ask for a resolution if you can prove fraud. As I understand it, they don’t _have to_ do jack about it, but they might and it’s worth asking. On two occasions I had a problem with a debit card (one a faulty ATM that debited my account but did not dispense cash, another an error at the grocery store) and in both instances the matter was resolved in my favor with all money restored to my account. As always, your mileage may vary and certainly there are some good reasons to use credit rather than debit, but the notion that you have _no_ recourse at all with a debit card is erroneous. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/24 "2011-12-09T13:08:38Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Now the nice thing about credit cards is that you can dispute the charge when it shows up, while for the debit card the money is already gone, so you are out it until it gets resolved. When I disputed charges on my debit I was actually quickly credited, I didn’t have to wait until it was resolved. I was, of course, cautioned that if the resolution was not in my favor I’d have to pony up the money, but I did, in fact, get a credit immediately in one instance and within 1 business day in the other. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/25 "2011-12-09T13:10:05Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Who checks their bank account every three days? I do it once a month. My household often checks daily, if not, every 2-3 days. What with this sort of thing and banks getting hacked and so on why wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/26 "2011-12-09T13:38:19Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Who checks their bank account every three days? I do it once a month. I probably average closer to every two days. Ain’t electronic banking wonderful! ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/27 "2011-12-09T14:14:05Z")
Of course, your PC might pick up some malware so that people can skim your on-line banking username and password… Just sayin.’ It’s getting harder and harder to stay a step ahead of the bad guys. I’ll give kudos to Chase’s fraud division too, though. Last year someone, somehow got my Chase credit card number and ran up charges on Christmas day. I got a phone call from Chase asking about it and when I disavowed\* the charges they removed them. Never even saw them on a statement and I had a new card in a couple days. \*= “Disavowed” is a word I’ve liked since I first watched _Mission Impossible._ I really only posted so I could use it. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/28 "2011-12-09T15:22:47Z")
Huh. Doesn’t sound so lucky to me. Perhaps that store should change their name? ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/29 "2011-12-09T16:51:23Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > So to recap: > > - Debit card stolen along with PIN: thief can wipe out your entire account. There’s not a damn thing you can do about it, and you have no recourse. > > - Credit card stolen: minor inconvenience - make a 1-minute phone call to bank (or go online to report it) and wait for a new card in the mail. Pay/lose nothing. > > So I think the better remedy is simply not to use debit cards. As I understand it, if the debit card has the Visa or MasterCard logo on it, it is subject to the same protections against fraudulent use as a credit card. Is this incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/30 "2011-12-09T17:19:10Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Who checks their bank account every three days? I do it once a month. I’m also with B of A and have email alerts set up for all kinds of things. In addition to that, I check my online account at least once a day to verify that things are as they should be. Like everyone else, I’m not sure why you wouldn’t do that. I mean, it takes thirty seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/31 "2011-12-09T18:42:15Z")
Some more news: It seems that they learned about the problem on November 3, so there was a full 20 days before they alerted their customers. I went to the Lucky’s near me last night. The place was almost empty (I then went to our Safeway which wasn’t.) They had a sheet of paper with a notification of the problem in normal sized print. They did have someone watching the registers. The manager, according to reliable accounts, keeps on telling people not to whine about the problem. Another store was found to be hacked also. I looked at the registers. They are set up to have your card slid down the side, not fed in like ATMs as shown in the helpful link which I can’t see for some reason. That link also said that the skimmer is usually kept in for a matter of hours, this one clearly was in for weeks. This next is hearsay, but someone we know (she is a real estate agent and her kid went to school with our kid) who got ripped off said that she went into complain, again. One of the employees told her on Dec. 6 that another employee was instructed to use his debit card to test the system on Dec. 5. He had never used it before in the store, and he had money missing the next day. As I said, just hearsay. BTW, we did not lose money. Nothing is odd about our account, my wife changed her PIN, and we are monitoring our credit card account - so far nothing. However 12 people in the Yahoo Group in a very restricted neighborhood have lost money from one store. One charge was in Canada so it is pretty clear that the hijacked data is being sold. This Pit is for those who have lost money, not for me. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/32 "2011-12-09T21:03:39Z")
I’m surprised people check their accounts so obsessively. Granted, my bank account only has 6 lines of activity each month. Other than fraud, I have no need to know my balance; it’s not like I’m going to suddenly start spending irresponsibly. The only two (of twelve–I’m trying to consolidate some of that) online financial accounts that I check less than my main bank account are my two secondary bank accounts. Using a debit card when you have access to a normal credit card is still foolish in nearly all situations. ---
**Author:** ![iftheresaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecae2f/32.png) [@iftheresaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iftheresaway)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/33 "2011-12-09T21:18:38Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Using a debit card when you have access to a normal credit card is still foolish in nearly all situations. There are plenty of good reasons to use debit over credit. My credit union has an “extreme checking” account - use your debit card for a minimum number of transactions a month, and you get 3.05 interest on up to $25,000 in the account. I’m gonna vote “not foolish”. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/34 "2011-12-09T21:19:01Z")
Yes, well, with the economy and job situation the way it is, more and more people _don’t_ have access to a regular credit card anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/35 "2011-12-10T08:28:07Z")
> [@FatBaldGuy](#): > > As I understand it, if the debit card has the Visa or MasterCard logo on it, it is subject to the same protections against fraudulent use as a credit card. Is this incorrect? It depends on how you use the card. Most times you are asked to select either credit or debit when using such a combined card. If you select credit, all the legal protections for credit card transactions apply. If you select debit, your protections depend on what the ban is willing to do for you. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/36 "2011-12-10T08:32:50Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I’m surprised people check their accounts so obsessively. You and me both. I’m pretty damned financially responsible, and I check my online balances maybe once a week at the very most. It’s more like twice a month. Why the hell would I check it every three days or more frequently? ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/37 "2011-12-10T18:17:35Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > You and me both. I’m pretty damned financially responsible, and I check my online balances maybe once a week at the very most. It’s more like twice a month. Why the hell would I check it every three days or more frequently? Because it’s trivial - I go to the TD Canada Trust site, enter my password (already has my card number in a cookie), glance at the balances, yup - that looks about right, go on my merry way. Ditto ING Direct except that I actually enter my number (I think I could tell it to remember it, but I memorized it a few years ago). If I pick up something that captures my keystrokes I’m screwed regardless of whether I check once a day or once a month. I guess I should distinguish between glancing and looking closely; I glance every couple of days or so, I probably look closely more like every week or so. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/38 "2011-12-11T05:19:55Z")
[San Jose Mercury News story](http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_19513239) on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/39 "2011-12-11T06:51:17Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > We also have Chase… I _think_ because the card has the VISA logo on it, it is backed up the same way as a credit card. Banks often extend protection to their debit cards, of some sort. However, they are not required to by law. The law limits your credit card liability to $50: no such protection exists for credit cards. Also, when I read the fine print of Wells Fargo’s debit card protection plan, it was less favorable than credit cards, at least back in the 1990s. Caveat emptor. Don’t assume that Chase will refund your money under all circumstances. > [@Voyager](#): > > Now the nice thing about credit cards is that you can dispute the charge when it shows up, while for the debit card the money is already gone, so you are out it until it gets resolved. > > We seldom use debit cards, except to get cash back and at CostCo. I own an ATM card and a credit card, but no debit card. I have to make a special request to turn down the debit card. > [@Ruken](#): > > Using a debit card when you have access to a normal credit card is still foolish in nearly all situations. If you carry a balance on your credit card account, paying with debit saves you some interest charges. Also some use debit cards as a cash management device: credit is too easy to rack up. In the 1970s political environment, Congress would have simply extended credit card protections to debit cards. Then the magic of the marketplace would have encouraged banks to crack down on this nonsense, _which has gone on for years_. Oh yeah, don’t make ATM withdrawals from convenience stores. Those can have skimmers as well. Incidentally, Lucky’s was a decent and economical grocery store before it was purchased by Albertson’s. (Then Albertson’s was purchased by a VC fund in 2006, who spun off the Northern CA and Northern Nevada stores to SaveMart, the current proud owners.) Shopping at the store seems misguided, pending a more pro-active approach from management. [Lucky Stores - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_Stores) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539/40 "2011-12-13T07:25:45Z")
Roundup of past blog posts on ATM skimmers at Krebs On Security. This is a big problem. It seems to me that card readers should be subject to routine human and electronic surveillance. > **[All About Skimmers – Krebs on Security](https://krebsonsecurity.com/all-about-skimmers/)** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luckys-to-customers-tough-you-got-ripped-off/605539.md?page=1)