# Luke I am your whatever **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [December 6, 2024, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240 "2024-12-06T03:28:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/41 "2024-12-06T17:13:41Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > an in-universe explanation for the fact that his face looked a little different after the car accident. It was either do that or continue with the inch-thick makeup from the Holiday Special. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/42 "2024-12-06T17:20:47Z")
EVERYTHING up to then had Anakin Skywalker as a different person than Darth Vader. In the Star Wars novelization by Alan Dean Foster released in 1977, he describes the fight between Anakin and Darth on Mustafar. It wasn’t until Leigh Brackett died while writing The Empire Strikes Back and George Lucas thought, “I can do better.” that the idea that Anakin = Darth even existed. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/43 "2024-12-06T19:08:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Alan Dean Foster, the guy who wrote _Splinter Of The Mind’s Eye_ was pretty shocked. I still have a copy of that book, and both it and I were shocked by the reveal too. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/44 "2024-12-06T19:23:30Z")
Before I saw it, a friend told me they reveal Vader’s real identity and I blurted out “Is he Luke’s father?”. I’m not sure why I jumped to that (correct) conclusion. I went into the theater knowing the twist, but it didn’t diminish my enjoyment of ESB. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/45 "2024-12-06T19:31:15Z")
Was it even that obvious (to kids) that Vader was not a robot? After all there are plenty of anthropomorphic droids. Which would have made it as surprising as learning C3PO was his brother. 😂 Or am I forgetting a line? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/46 "2024-12-06T19:39:20Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Was it even that obvious (to kids) that Vader was not a robot? Maybe not to really little kids, but I was 12 when the original movie came out, and I always believed that Vader was a guy in a mask and suit, not a droid. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/47 "2024-12-06T19:40:10Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Was it even that obvious (to kids) that Vader was not a robot? After all there are plenty of anthropomorphic droids. Ben told Luke that Vader left humanity behind and that he was more machine than man now. So we knew he was (at least, originally) a human. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/48 "2024-12-06T19:40:42Z")
Vader moves differently than droids, then there’s the whole breathing thing. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/49 "2024-12-06T19:46:09Z")
Yeah it might just be me. As a kid in the late 80s, I had the toys (which were really cheap as star wars mania ended abruptly in the UK) long before I saw the movie. And from the toys it wasn’t that obvious that characters like Vader or Boba Fett or heck, even the stormtroopers, were meant to be humans in a suit. I don’t recall now, how much into the movie I figured that he was a guy. ETA: The “breathing” of course sounds more like venting or something, I don’t know if it’s that clear he’s human. But of course it’s hard to remember how Vader first came across, as it’s so long ago and how iconic a figure he’s been through my whole life. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/50 "2024-12-06T19:56:40Z")
I was an adult when I saw it (in its original run). I remember my reaction was, “Great plot twist.” ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/51 "2024-12-06T20:11:09Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > but also the fact that that little green muppet is actually the Jedi master Yoda— When I saw the movie and we met Yoda somewhere in the theater I heard a child’s voice pipe up, quite clearly, _“He sounds like Grover”_ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/52 "2024-12-06T20:12:27Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Was it even that obvious (to kids) that Vader was not a robot? Never even crossed my mind that he was a robot when I was a kid. Aside from the breathing, he’s in charge of shit, and people are scared of him. All the other droids (at least in the first movie) are treated like fancy appliances. Nobody is scared of them, and nobody takes orders from them, any more than you’d take orders and cower in front of your microwave. > [@Mijin](#): > > Or am I forgetting a line? There’s no one line that specifically calls Vader a human, but there’s tons of dialogue where people talk about Vader in terms that only make sense if he’s human. Probably the most significant was Obi-Wan telling Luke what happened to his dad: “A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father.” ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/53 "2024-12-06T20:19:33Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > When I saw the movie and we met Yoda somewhere in the theater I heard a child’s voice pipe up, quite clearly, _“He sounds like Grover”_ _There’s a Jedi at the end of this Book_ ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/54 "2024-12-06T20:20:31Z")
Is there a face palm emoji? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/55 "2024-12-06T20:27:36Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > It always annoyed me that Yoda later referred to Luke’s “Failure at the cave”, because how was that a failure? I mean, seeing a prophecy about yourself can’t really be a “failure”, can it? Later ignoring the prophecy, maybe, or even embracing it, if it leads you to evil, sure, but just _seeing_ it? How is that a failure? The failure was when Luke ignored his mentor’s instructions, and took his weapons into the cave, which we can take as emblematic that he entered the cave with fear and aggression - he was worried it was dangerous, and wanted to be able to fight whatever that danger was. The vision he had was what would happen to him if he continued to “fail” in that way - he would eventually turn to the Dark Side, and become just like his father. If he’d heeded Yoda, and left fear and aggression behind when he entered the cave, he wouldn’t have needed that specific vision, and would have received a different one, more suited to where he was on his journey to being a Jedi - perhaps something that showed him an easier path to redeeming Vader, or hinting at his real relationship with Leia, or warning him off from the trap in Cloud City. As a kid, I remember totally not getting that scene at all. The big problem for me was I didn’t recognize Luke’s face when the face mask on the helmet exploded. I think I was thrown by the fact that Luke was already in the scene, so that had to be a different person in the mask. Instead, I somehow mistook him for one of the Star Destroyer’s officers from earlier in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/56 "2024-12-06T21:14:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The big problem for me was I didn’t recognize Luke’s face when the face mask on the helmet exploded. I didn’t, either. When I finally figured it out, I was pissed at the filmmakers for not making that clearer. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/57 "2024-12-06T21:19:47Z")
The other thing that makes Vader an obvious non-robot is his use of magical powers (like choking that guy with the disturbing lack of faith in the Force.) How many robots in cinema have mastered telekinesis? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/58 "2024-12-06T21:35:37Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The big problem for me was I didn’t recognize Luke’s face when the face mask on the helmet exploded. Me, too. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/59 "2024-12-06T21:39:01Z")
Funny. I didn’t have any problem recognizing the face as Luke’s. That’s what led to the feeling that he would be fighting himself in using the Force. Ready, he was not. Fail, he did. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240/60 "2024-12-06T23:20:18Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Ready, he was not. Fail, he did. Agreed. Now, offline I should get and dinner I should have. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-i-am-your-whatever/1011240.md?page=4)