# Luke Skywalker, badass? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [May 4, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576 "2023-05-04T18:57:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/1 "2023-05-04T18:57:43Z")
Fitting for Star Wars Day, a pretty cool analysis of just how Badass Luke is in Return of the Jedi. Especially good timing since I just saw it again on the big screen last week. > **[You All Forgot That Luke Skywalker Is the GOAT](https://www.tor.com/2023/05/04/you-all-forgot-that-luke-skywalker-is-the-goat/)** > > I have this problem—because I’m not a kid anymore, I am expected to admit straight-up that Han Solo is far and away a better character than Luke Skywalker. And… he’s just not. Look, I love the guy:… ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2023, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/2 "2023-05-04T19:27:49Z")
That’s a fun article. It’s getting about time got me to rewatch the original trilogy. I love the climatic battle in _The Last Jedi_ between Luke Skywalker and Kylo Ren. It’s the ultimate Jedi Mind Trick and shows Luke’s total mastery of the Light Side. What better way to defeat evil than having them attack nothing? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/3 "2023-05-04T19:36:19Z")
It’s so disappointing that the rest of RotJ is kinda meh because I LOVE Luke in Jabba’s palace. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2023, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/4 "2023-05-04T19:41:30Z")
[Mark Hamill on Luke being a badass](https://youtu.be/UH0nTHb6OdY?t=342) I hope I got the link right. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2023, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/5 "2023-05-04T19:54:50Z")
There’s also the final episode of Season 2 of _The Mandalorian_ where Luke easily takes out an entire platoon of dark troopers, while Mando himself (clear badass up to that point) could barely take down one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/6 "2023-05-05T10:51:10Z")
Of course, even a badass like Luke has his struggles. There’s a deleted scene in _A New Hope_ where Obi-Wan takes him to a Chinese restaurant, and Luke just can’t get the hang of chopsticks. So finally Obi-Wan says, “Use the forks, Luke.” \ ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/7 "2023-05-05T11:10:07Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > It’s so disappointing that the rest of RotJ is kinda meh because I LOVE Luke in Jabba’s palace. RotJ has a great first 45 and final 45 minutes but the 45 minutes in between is a bit of a snore. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/8 "2023-05-05T18:03:20Z")
When I watched RotJ for the first time in decades, maybe 7-8 years ago, I remember being impressed by what a badass _Princess Leia_ was. Since that was most of a decade ago, I couldn’t give you specifics. But I remember that’s what really stood out for me. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/9 "2023-05-05T18:19:05Z")
She strangled Jabba, blew up his ship, drove a speederbike like a bat out of hell, covered Han during a major firefight while he screwed things up again, and took a blaster bolt to the shoulder & shrugged it off. Major, major badass. Hell, when you think about it, Han is really near the bottom of the effectiveness scale - if it wasn’t for Threepio he’d be the most useless of the main characters. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/10 "2023-05-05T18:39:01Z")
Oh, Princess Leia was bad-ass from the beginning. In the original Star Wars movie, she uses a pistol and a carbine multiple times, tries tricking the Imperials under (off-screen) torture, leads the Rebel Alliance, and stood up to both Vader and Tarkin. In Empire Strikes Back, she’s among the last to evacuate the captured base. I’m trying to think of what else. Also note, that in the Space Balls spoof of Star Wars, there’s gags about how she’s bad-ass. (But also gags about being a stuck-up princess.) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/11 "2023-05-05T19:09:53Z")
That was a great article. Despite the Ewok crap, done under the dark influence of Kenner, back then Lucas could still tell a story, and he knew that Luke, not Han, was the real hero of the saga. Mostly we see the Jedi as just a bunch of people who kick butt with light sabers, but we are told that it is more than that, and Luke shows it at the end. He wins by surrendering, just as he saved himself in ESB when he fell to get away from Vader. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/12 "2023-05-05T19:11:20Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > In Empire Strikes Back, she’s among the last to evacuate the captured base. I’m trying to think of what else. She made out with her brother _just to piss off another guy_. That’s pretty badass. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/13 "2023-05-05T21:09:10Z")
And in general, she doesn’t take any guff from Luke or Han. While at that time there were a number of films and TV series which were starting to show powerful, assertive women, it still wasn’t the norm. Particularly in sci-fi, and particularly in the context of what is partially a “rescue the princess” storyline. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2023, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/14 "2023-05-05T23:21:17Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Oh, Princess Leia was bad-ass from the beginning. In the original Star Wars movie, she uses a pistol and a carbine multiple times, tries tricking the Imperials under (off-screen) torture, leads the Rebel Alliance, and stood up to both Vader and Tarkin. Reading this made me think about the final third of _Empire Strikes Back_, after Vader has captured Han, Leia, and Chewie. He then starts torturing them, in an effort to tempt Luke to come to Bespin and rescue them. We see Chewie being tortured (via loud sounds), and Han being tortured (via that wicked-looking sparking device), but we never see Leia being tortured (and it’s not ever detailed that she actually was tortured there). I’m completely interpreting here, but I’m now going to assume that Vader thought, “you know, I’ve tried to torture her before, and it simply didn’t work. I’m not going to even bother.” ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2023, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/15 "2023-05-06T22:52:34Z")
I dunno, was she actually tortured in ANH? The interro-droid had a syringe on it and Vader says she’s resisting the mind probe, so maybe truth serum just doesn’t work on force sensitives. ETA, on the other hand, seems does seem like she’s been through the wringer in the cloud city cell ‘why are they doing this’ scene. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/16 "2023-05-07T01:32:20Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > She strangled Jabba, blew up his ship, drove a speederbike like a bat out of hell, covered Han during a major firefight while he screwed things up again, and took a blaster bolt to the shoulder & shrugged it off. Major, major badass. Hell, when you think about it, Han is really near the bottom of the effectiveness scale - if it wasn’t for Threepio he’d be the most useless of the main characters. Han is a goofball. He’s not good at anything other than being a pilot and that’s half on Chewbacca. But dudes think he’s some sort of “cool guy.” Because he presents that way at times…but every single movie has a moment of him just screwing up or being a weirdo. Luke whines once in A New Hope and it becomes how a lot of the fandom saw him. I personally love the Jabba sequence because I see it as basically Luke not having planned everything but having had a contingency plan for everything. If this fails, then this… and if that fails then this… And Leia’s competency is never in any doubt. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/17 "2023-05-07T14:26:51Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > I dunno, was she actually tortured in ANH? IIRC, in the novelization, there is a line describing the guard outside the door needing to move down the hall a bit to not hear the screaming. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/18 "2023-05-07T14:31:34Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > I dunno, was she actually tortured in ANH? The interro-droid had a syringe on it [It was just a flu shot!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAKtZ_r0V6E) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/19 "2023-05-07T20:03:35Z")
“But I was going into Tosche Station to pick up some power converters.” Lee Marvin couldn’t have said it better. Because he would refuse to say it, look you in the eye and make you feel like a worm. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2023, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576/20 "2023-05-07T21:20:08Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > She strangled Jabba, blew up his ship, drove a speederbike like a bat out of hell, covered Han during a major firefight while he screwed things up again, and took a blaster bolt to the shoulder & shrugged it off. Major, major badass. Aside from Aunt Beru and Mon Mothma, she’s the only female character with a speaking role, and of the main characters, the only one with actual fighting experience in the Rebellion even if Han, Luke, and even Lando get brevet promotions to command ranks because…well, it’s not really clear. Anyway, Leia has a lot of water to carry for these guys because it’s pretty clear none of them can follow orders or stick to a plan. > [@muldoonthief](#): > > Hell, when you think about it, Han is really near the bottom of the effectiveness scale - if it wasn’t for Threepio he’d be the most useless of the main characters. This is also Ford’s role as Indiana Jones in _Raiders of the Lost Ark_; at the end of the movie, he hasn’t actually accomplished much of anything except leading Belloq to the Well of Souls, getting Marion kidnapped repeatedly, and then finally delivering the Ark to the Nazis who were only defeated by their own hubris. In fact, until _Patriot Games_ and _The Fugitive_, Ford pretty much played a string of bumbling idiots, paranoid raving maniacs, and brain-damaged imbeciles. Next to that, Leia would look competent just painting her fingernails. Stranger [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/luke-skywalker-badass/983576.md?page=2)