# Lusitania Sinking-Why Are The Brits Still Secretive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 2, 2002, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687 "2002-09-02T16:50:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/1 "2002-09-02T16:50:13Z")
I just finished an excellent new book about the sinking of the Lusitania, in 1915. Sorry-forgot the author’s name, but she is a British woman, and she did an excellent job! I have read several accounts of the sinking, and the concensus seems to be that the official (British) court of inquiry left many questions unanswered. Even this author, doing her research 80+ years later, found strange things-pages missing from files, blank sheets inserted in transcripts, etc. Since everybody connected with this (in any government capacity) is now long dead, just why is the British government so secretive about it? Suppose it was found that the Lusitania was transporting explosives (in violation of the law)-what difference would it make today? Surely there are no open lawsuits still in the courts regarding the sinking? I was particularly intrigued by the fact that a passenger (a french citizen) testified at the inquiry, that he heard the explosions of cartriges going off after the torpedo hit-the British intelligence service went out of its way to try to discredit this man-why? I thinkit is clear that Winston Churchill and Fisher welcomed the sinking-they saw it as a way to draw the USA into the war. Yet, it was two years later until the US finally declared war on germany. All in all, a good read-I’ll get you the author’s name later. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/2 "2002-09-02T16:56:47Z")
To make it even weirder, the Irish government has refused to allow salvage rights to the legal owner of the wreck. They even went to court last month (or thereabouts) to block salvage operations. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/3 "2002-09-02T17:09:16Z")
While the ship hasn’t been salvaged…[It has been explored](http://www.pbs.org/lostliners/lusitania.html) by Bob Ballard. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/4 "2002-09-02T20:45:02Z")
_sigh_ While they may have welcomed the idea of something happening that might draw US support, there is no way that Churchill and Fisher planned it that way-like so many people accuse. One thing that Ballard stated-it was NOT the magazine that caused the second explosion-it was located in a different part than the place where the torpedo hit-and when they explored the wreck, that part was still intact. The two most plausible- Boiler explosion. Icy water hitting hot metal would most definitely cause an explosion. Ballard disputes this because none of the surviving crew said they had heard of a boiler explosion. Ballard’s theory:-coal dust. After a long trip, the coal bunkers would be empty, and the air would be full of coal dust-which is HIGHLY explosive. Once the torpedo hit, it rocked the ship, causing the coal dust to ignite. Read _Exploring the_ Lusitania, by Robert Ballard. It’s great! (Of course, I’m a huge admirer of Ballard.) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/5 "2002-09-02T20:54:40Z")
_sigh_ While they may have welcomed the idea of something happening that might draw US support, there is no way that Churchill and Fisher planned it that way-like so many people accuse. One thing that Ballard stated-it was NOT the magazine that caused the second explosion-it was located in a different part than the place where the torpedo hit-and when they explored the wreck, that part was still intact. The two most plausible- Boiler explosion. Icy water hitting hot metal would most definitely cause an explosion. Ballard disputes this because none of the surviving crew said they had heard of a boiler explosion. Ballard’s theory:-coal dust. After a long trip, the coal bunkers would be empty, and the air would be full of coal dust-which is HIGHLY explosive. Once the torpedo hit, it rocked the ship, causing the coal dust to ignite. Read _Exploring the_ Lusitania, by Robert Ballard. It’s great! (Of course, I’m a huge admirer of Ballard.) ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/6 "2002-09-02T21:14:25Z")
Didn’t Ballard confirm/disprove the theory that the Lusitania was carrying US built armored tanks for the British Army? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/7 "2002-09-02T21:17:34Z")
There were no such things as tanks in 1915. ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/8 "2002-09-02T21:25:50Z")
I thought the presence of small calibre ammo was an an established fact (and not damming - it was, for some reason, “NOT” war material). my guess is they still don’t want the linkage between the Admiralty and the passenger line publicised - the Lusitania was built with (some) military money, and had the bukheads in place to allow easy addition of cannon (among other easy-to-convert features). and, I have heard, the Lusitania had been known to false-flag - sail under the US flag to avoid being a target - that has got to be a sore spot ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/9 "2002-09-02T21:34:28Z")
Well, the wreck isn’t exactly easy to visit-it’s covered in lost fishnets, and there are unexploded depth charges from when the Royal Irish Navy used to use it for target practice. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/10 "2002-09-02T21:45:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimboguy \* > \*\*There were no such things as tanks in 1915. \*\* I stand corrected, though this Da Vinci fellow would like to have a word with you. In any case, I thought Ballard _did_ find conclusive evidence that the Lusitania was carrying something which was a violation of one of the treaties and thus was technically a “valid” target. (Not that this excuses what happened to the ship.) Or if it wasn’t Ballard someone else found something, either buried in the records or in the wreck itself which confirmed this. I may well be misremembering, however. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/11 "2002-09-02T22:24:09Z")
**yojimboguy** said: > [@](#): > > There were no such things as tanks in 1915. I don’t know what criteria one might use to define a tank. As far back as 1900 there was the Fowler B.5 Armoured Road Locomotive, which, while formidable in appearance and certainly capable of tank-like activities, was not a tracked vehicle. In the years leading up to WWI armored cars abounded, with some tank like configurations, such as the 1915 Panzerkraftwagen Büssing/15. Still not tracked, though. Also in 1915, the UK produced a tracked AFV, the Killen-Strait Armoured Tractor. But the modern tank, also appearing in 1915, was the UK’s “Little Willie,” a product of manufacturer Wm. Tritton; it was a tracked armored fighting vehicle that used the “Creeping Grip” tracks made by the Bullock Tractor Co. of Chicago\*\*\*\*\*. From [here](http://www.qinetiq.com/applications/news_room/feature_articles/featurearticles_tank.asp?fid=6): > [@](#): > > In Tritton’s factory, the strange new vehicles had been code-named Water Tanks for Mesopotamia, but this was soon cut down to size by the shop floor to water tanks and eventually the name stuck. \*[sub]Thrown in to kind of keep this on the Lusitania/war materials beam, although I’ve never heard of tank treads making for strong secondary explosions.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/12 "2002-09-02T22:39:15Z")
Another good source is the National Geographic video on the _Lusitania_, narrated by Martin Sheen. I also have a program I taped on A&E called “_Lusitania_: Murder on the Atlantic” that is rather informative. Both show interviews with survivors and nautical experts. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2002, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/13 "2002-09-03T01:58:24Z")
Allow me to recommend two new books about the Lusitainia: [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0802713750/qid=1031016867/sr=2-1/ref=sr\_2\_1/104-1261456-6620753](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0802713750/qid=1031016867/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-1261456-6620753) [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393050998/qid=1031016867/sr=2-3/ref=sr\_2\_3/104-1261456-6620753](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393050998/qid=1031016867/sr=2-3/ref=sr_2_3/104-1261456-6620753) I too am a great fan of DR Ballard. He will always be remembered as the man who found the Titanic but he has done a lot of important research. Ballard was extensively involved in the discovery of hydrothermal vents and the chemosynthesis ecology in the deep oceans as well as first rate research in the confirmation of plate tectonics by his dives aboard Alvin at the Mid-ocean ridge. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2002, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/14 "2002-09-03T13:05:10Z")
As I said, the main thing I found that puzzles me is: -the British Admiralty could read all of the german navy codes in 1915. They knew where all of the german submarines were, knew their orders, and knew their targets. The Admiralty did NOTHING to warn Capt. Turner (master of the LUSITANIA). After the sinking, the Admiralty made out that Turner had ignored their warnings-this was unbelievable! -the missing files.Major portions of the files regarding the inquiry are missing from the Cunard archives, and the Admiralty refuses to open their own records. As I say, why anybody should be worried about this, after 90 years is beyond me. Maybe our British friends just like keeping secrets! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2002, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/15 "2002-09-03T13:24:17Z")
Turner-there were certain procedures that were advised when in a torpedo zone. Turner HAD been radioed that there had been torpedo activity. While he wasn’t a villain, and he didn’t ignore them exactly, he was old and set in his ways. For example, he should have been zig-zagging, and steering closer to the coast, from what I understand. He wanted to take advantage of a tide to get into Liverpool-but by waiting for this, he made a fatal error. A lot of people scoffed and said the _Lucy_ should have had a naval escort. NOT true. If she had, she would most DEFINITELY been a legitimate target. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2002, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lusitania-sinking-why-are-the-brits-still-secretive/126687/16 "2002-09-03T14:02:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ralph124c \* > **I just finished an excellent new book about the sinking of the Lusitania, in 1915. Sorry-forgot the author’s name, but she is a British woman, and she did an excellent job!** Was it, by any chance, Diana Preston’s _Wilful Murder_? If so, how do you explain the fact that, far from conspiring to suppress information on the subject, the Public Record Office is prominently promoting Preston’s book in its bookshop? [http://probookshop.seekbooks.co.uk/](http://probookshop.seekbooks.co.uk/)