# Lying Golddiggers, et al v. Big Tobacco: Part II **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 25, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133 "2006-09-25T22:04:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Rhubarb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Rhubarb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhubarb)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/81 "2006-09-27T02:28:14Z")
And BTW, I’d cheerfully strangle a kitten if I thought it was hiding a cigarette from me. [sub]Oh yeah, they’re a little bit addictive allright.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/82 "2006-09-27T02:28:39Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] I’ll add that there are a number of “warnings” that are legally meaningless. An implied warrant of merchantability stands no matter what legalese a retailer throws up around it. A “not responsible for falling rocks” on a truck is legally just a sign; they are responsible. And so on. [/QUOTE] My point exactly; what I was trying to get Doors to address. Any such notice has to be legally enforceable. If the cig warning labels could be proved (speculating here) to be entirely self-serving–if they were agreed to only so that Doors could have some Flavoraid with his Marlboros–then I’d call them unenforceable. Again, this is for a court to decide. Right, Doors? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/83 "2006-09-27T02:43:03Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] It makes no difference. If you’re a smaoker worried about your future you can quit. Thousands do it each day, millions each year. If you’re not a smoker, don’t start. Nobody makes you light it. It still comes down to personal responsibility. [/QUOTE] The numbers I’ve seen show that only 7-10% of smokers who attempt to quit succeed. Is it your contention that the remainder have no sense of personal responsibility? If so, can you suggest a reason why I have moderated my diet, moderated my drinking, and increased my exercise - all in the purpose of taking better care of myself - yet I cannot quit smoking? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/84 "2006-09-27T02:46:12Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] If so, can you suggest a reason why I have moderated my diet, moderated my drinking, and increased my exercise - all in the purpose of taking better care of myself - yet I cannot quit smoking? [/QUOTE] You can’t? Sure you can. Throw the rest away, don’t buy any more. It’s tough to smoke something you don’t have. That’s really the long and short of it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/85 "2006-09-27T02:48:19Z")
Stupidity does not make them legitimate prey, any more than intelligence profers a license to exploit. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/86 "2006-09-27T02:49:39Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] You can’t? Sure you can. Throw the rest away, don’t buy any more. It’s tough to smoke something you don’t have. That’s really the long and short of it. [/QUOTE] _Why are you whining about no bread, when you can just eat cake? I got plenty of it up here in my ivory tower._ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/87 "2006-09-27T02:55:18Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] … yet I cannot quit smoking? [/QUOTE] Obviously, its because you’re weak, lazy and undisciplined. These are, of course, the most mortal of sins. Nonetheless, I suspect you are closer to grace than the pushers who sell you your shit. After all, its easier for a Camel to pass through the eye of a needle… ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/88 "2006-09-27T03:04:44Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] The purpose of these suits is to raise money for rich people, mostly lawyers, at the expense of the middle class and the poor. [/QUOTE] Ha! First, the suits _do_ help lots of poor and middle-class folks. At least in the case of the initial BT suits, a huge chunk of the profits went to state health systems (who bear the burden of treating all the sick smokers). Second, do you have any idea what kind of financial risk a plaintiff’s lawyer takes in these kinds of cases? There is a reason that law firms don’t take them. In the original BT suits, plaintiff’s lawyers had to put up millions on their own dollars – every year! – just to see the trial through. In this kind of mega-litigation, plaintiff’s lawyers gamble big; in many cases, they risked their financial lives for victory. Strictly in financial terms, it makes little sense to make such a big gamble. This is especially true of the BT litigation, for which victory seemed very unlikely. Most of these guys and gals did it firmly on principle. The money they made for winning was well-earned. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/89 "2006-09-27T03:24:25Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] _Why are you whining about no bread, when you can just eat cake? I got plenty of it up here in my ivory tower._ [/QUOTE] Ha. I am a smoker, and even I know that the first step to quitting is to get the things away from me. The reason that I don’t quit is a very simple one: I don’t want to. When I went off to Basic I had no problems stopping. When I fly I have no issues. I can (and have) gone days without. I simply enjoy smoking. And I am fully informed of the health risks, so I have no excuse should I get sick. Of course, the precedent is set. In fact, as a former smoker of lights I am included in this class action. I’ll let you know what my cut is. :rolleyes: Anyway, that is exactly the case. To quit, simply get them away from you and stop buying them. If you have this compulsion that you simply cannot ignore your problems go far beyond physical addiction and well into the psychological. > [@elucidator](#): > > Obviously, its because you’re weak, lazy and undisciplined. These are, of course, the most mortal of sins. Nonetheless, I suspect you are closer to grace than the pushers who sell you your shit. After all, its easier for a Camel to pass through the eye of a needle… More unwarranted sarcasm. It is OK to speak plainly sometimes, you realize. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/90 "2006-09-27T04:04:44Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] …More unwarranted sarcasm. It is OK to speak plainly sometimes, you realize. [/QUOTE] Sure, except for being, like, dullsville. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/91 "2006-09-27T05:22:12Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] The numbers I’ve seen show that only 7-10% of smokers who attempt to quit succeed. Is it your contention that the remainder have no sense of personal responsibility? [/quote] It’s my contentiont that they consider the pleasure they get from smoking to outweigh the risk to themselves as they measure it. Smoking is not a death sentence, afterall. > [@](#): > > If so, can you suggest a reason why I have moderated my diet, moderated my drinking, and increased my exercise - all in the purpose of taking better care of myself - yet I cannot quit smoking? Because you like smoking? What would happen to you if we sent you somewhere where you had all the things you like (good food, good entertainment, good friends) but no cigs? Would you go into convlusions, pass out and die? What does it mean when you say you “cannot quit”? Is it the same as when I say I cannot stop breathing? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/92 "2006-09-27T05:32:42Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Ha. I am a smoker, and even I know that the first step to quitting is to get the things away from me. The reason that I don’t quit is a very simple one: I don’t want to. When I went off to Basic I had no problems stopping. When I fly I have no issues. I can (and have) gone days without. I simply enjoy smoking. And I am fully informed of the health risks, so I have no excuse should I get sick. Of course, the precedent is set. In fact, as a former smoker of lights I am included in this class action. I’ll let you know what my cut is. :rolleyes: Anyway, that is exactly the case. To quit, simply get them away from you and stop buying them. If you have this compulsion that you simply cannot ignore your problems go far beyond physical addiction and well into the psychological. [/QUOTE] OK, Tom Cruise. You’re still talking cake and towers, deluding yourself nothwithstanding. And you continue to avoid addressing the only substantive point I’ve made, over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/93 "2006-09-27T13:59:36Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] OK, Tom Cruise. You’re still talking cake and towers, deluding yourself nothwithstanding. And you continue to avoid addressing the only substantive point I’ve made, over and over again. [/QUOTE] What have you asked that I have failed to address? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/94 "2006-09-27T15:02:19Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] What have you asked that I have failed to address? [/QUOTE] [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7814432&postcount=82](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7814432&postcount=82) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/95 "2006-09-27T15:11:42Z")
I did respond to that. > [@](#): > > OK, I’m willing to acknowledge your point. However, as you conceded my points earlier, are you willing to say that the judges allowing these types of lawsuits to go to trial have no basis to do so? We can thus amend my OP to this: The lying golddiggers have every right to sue, and the judges that buy their bullshit and allow it to go to trial enable them to abdicate their own personal responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/96 "2006-09-27T15:12:09Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] … can you suggest a reason why I have moderated my diet, moderated my drinking, and increased my exercise - all in the purpose of taking better care of myself - yet I cannot quit smoking? [/QUOTE] Based on what I’ve gotten from this thread, you’re not doing enough smack. 😉 I like to smoke. If we got word of an impending nuclear strike, I would be heading not to the gun shop but to the tobacconist. You didn’t ask for my advice, but I can tell you what finally worked for me. Fuck **flavor country** , I quit smoking lights and headed for a whole new continent: Bali Shag Red unfiltered hand-rolled goodness, a cig something like inhaling a one-pound bar of dark chocolate, the mechanics and effects of which make it much less convenient to impulsively “grab a quick smoke.” More importantly, I believe lights fool the consumer because they’re engineered to _feel_ better on his system. A pack a day of Camel Lights barely made a dent on my 3-mile run. With head-spinning, throat-clogging, unadulterated tobacco I could barely make it to the gym. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/97 "2006-09-27T21:15:20Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] I did respond to that. [/QUOTE] Sorry, I missed that for some reason. We still disagree, to a point, though; I don’t think any judge should have his decision pre-judged like that, by you. That’s why we have judges, to consider all the details of a case that you, skimming the newspaper headlines while you wait for the bus, might not be privvy to. ---
**Author:** ![oy\_vay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/258eb7/32.png) [@oy\_vay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oy_vay)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/98 "2006-09-28T00:29:11Z")
Quite frankly selling cigarettes to someone who’s addicted to them is like selling a gun to a suicidal man, or selling an air plane to some one incapable of flying but openly wants to “wing it”. All does is make the business man a little richer and the **heavily addicted** customer a little deader. How can anyone with any shred of ethics go into a business like that? Anyone who works at, or owns stock in a cigarette company is an accomplice to man slaughter, and discovered to be kicked in the groin and/or ovaries and thrown to the gutter. ---
**Author:** ![oy\_vay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/258eb7/32.png) [@oy\_vay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oy_vay)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/99 "2006-09-28T00:30:52Z")
Er spell check messed me up. Discovered should be deserves… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133/100 "2006-09-28T00:37:04Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Would you go into convlusions, pass out and die? What does it mean when you say you “cannot quit”? Is it the same as when I say I cannot stop breathing? [/QUOTE] Not at all. The pleasure for me no longer outweighs the drawbacks. Yet I am addicted, and when I attempt to stop, the withdrawal symptoms (which, while not convulsions, include aspects which are very unpleasant both to me and to those around me) are extremely strong, too strong for my willpower to overcome. Perhaps I should try wearing two nicotine patches next time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-golddiggers-et-al-v-big-tobacco-part-ii/374133.md?page=6)