# Lying whore. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 10, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153 "2006-04-10T22:26:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/601 "2006-04-22T01:07:16Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > Boy, you guys are loving this, huh? > 🙂 Not sure what you mean? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/602 "2006-04-22T16:09:33Z")
Bumping to correct the database error causing the last page to not display. This particular bug seems to be happening more and more… ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/603 "2006-04-22T16:53:39Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Actually, at this point I’d lay cash that last is what happened. There was an argument, and someone dropped the N-bomb or made some other racist remark. A phony rape accusation was the response. > > Not that we’ll likely ever know for sure at this point. Based on the stuff that’s come out to date I’d lay some money it happened something like this \*\*Frat boys: \*\* We’ve got the keg and now we’ve got the strippers Yee Yaw! Good Times! Go Duke! Hey you’re not the strippers we ordered! You’re black and you’re all messed up! Why don’t you sluts fuck this broomstick! We’re not going to pay you skanks/niggers/whores for this messed up shit! \*\*Strippers: \*\* Say what? What did you call us? Party’s over! Let’s go! Strippers separate and repair to bathrooms to re-assemble and go. One stripper goes and waits outside- Other stripper is not leaving bathroom. Frat boys start getting nervous and start slipping money under door to get her to leave. She eventually leaves bathroom & house but realizes she forgot items and knocks on door to retrieve items. Frat boys initially won’t let he back in, but eventually after pleading she is let back in to get her stuff. On final exit she trips on steps while leaving & takes nasty tumble. Result: Two very pissed off strippers -One very high, very pissed off injured stripper and one humiliated pissed off stripper. High stripper starts to nod off and won’t leave car, and non-high stripper drives around trying to figure out how to get high stripper out of her car. After a while stops in Kroger parking lot and asks for security guard to call police to get passed out stripper some help and out of her car. Passed out stripper is asked by police what happens and our story begins ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/604 "2006-04-22T17:22:14Z")
The victim has injuries to the genital area consistent with forcible rape which still need to be explained. I know there is video showing bruises and scratches on her arms and legs when she entered the building. Those are not the injuries I’m talking about. I think a lot of people have decided this girl is a liar based on a couple of red herrings like the meaningless photos of pre-existing scratches on her arms and the meaningless lack of DNA. Neither one of those things remotely proves innocence and the _pertinent_ injuries still require an explanation. I also think that (even though they probably won’t admit it) that the fact that she’s a stripper makes people assume that she must be a lying slut. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/605 "2006-04-22T18:15:55Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Hey you’re not the strippers we ordered! > > You’re black and you’re all messed up! They have a pic of one, and she’s not that attractive (understatement). I wouldn’t be surprised if the frat boys reacted like this. [http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=nation\_world&id=4103403](http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=nation_world&id=4103403) [http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/LegalCenter/wireStory?id=1869877](http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/LegalCenter/wireStory?id=1869877) ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/606 "2006-04-22T18:19:13Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The victim has injuries to the genital area consistent with forcible rape which still need to be explained. I know there is video showing bruises and scratches on her arms and legs when she entered the building. Those are not the injuries I’m talking about. I think a lot of people have decided this girl is a liar based on a couple of red herrings like the meaningless photos of pre-existing scratches on her arms and the meaningless lack of DNA. Neither one of those things remotely proves innocence and the _pertinent_ injuries still require an explanation. You actually bring up an interesting point that I’ve wondered about in reading stories where a person has “injuries consistent with being raped”. In doing these exams what is the methodology the doctor uses to distinguish a forcible rape from regular or rough sex? In determining that they were genitally forcibly penetrated is there a specific distinguishing physical (genital) features of forcible rape or is it more a doctors “I know it when I see it” perception? Would the non-genital injuries to the legs and torso potentially color the physician’s determination that forcible genital rape occurred in this case? > [@](#): > > I also think that (even though they probably won’t admit it) that the fact that she’s a stripper makes people assume that she must be a lying slut There are hard working strippers who can have hearts of gold as past threads on this board have demonstrated. Regarding their reliability the fact that they both have police records for fairly serious offenses, the accusing stripper for auto theft and possibly drug abuse, and the non-verifying-now verifying stripper for fairly serious embezzlement while in a position of authority, are why people might question their credibility. That, the unreliable IDs, and the almost impossibly compressed time line required for the claimed actions to have take place are why people question the allegations. In weighing the claims of obnoxious, over-privileged frat boys with everything to lose vs strippers, I dont think the public (including myself) gives either one of them a leg up regarding credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/607 "2006-04-22T23:39:22Z")
To add to **Astro’s** post, the fact that she has injuries consistent with rape says nothing about when it may have happened. If all the DA has is the photo ID and the rape kit he is in trouble. For whomever is interested–[First 911 call.](http://www.lashawnbarber.com/first%20911.mp3) [Second 911 call.](http://www.lashawnbarber.com/second%20911.mp3) ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/608 "2006-04-23T05:45:02Z")
That was the fakest fake crying I ever heard in the first 911 call about the alleged racial slurs being yelled out from the house on Buchanan. I’m thinking more and more that one or more of these guys insulted these women (possibly with racial slurs) and the more coherent of the two tried to make some trouble for them with the first 911 call. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/609 "2006-04-24T22:56:47Z")
[Here](http://www.journalnow.com/scripts/isapi_srun.dll/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137835549549&path=!localnews&s=1037645509099&DPL=JPsPDSL7ChA75gkNJuA7&tacodalogin=yes) is an article discussing the ethics of the prosecutor with regard to his comments to the media. There is another article, which I cannot find right now, that claims that when the LAX members gave a list to investigators of who was at the party, Seligman’s name was left off. If true, this raises questions about his alibi defense. [Here](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192763,00.html) is an article critical of the behavior of the defense attorneys. One comment–it appears that she does not realize that in NC the DA is not required to present exculpatory evidence to the grand jury. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/610 "2006-04-25T13:18:33Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The victim has injuries to the genital area consistent with forcible rape which still need to be explained. I know there is video showing bruises and scratches on her arms and legs when she entered the building. Those are not the injuries I’m talking about. I think a lot of people have decided this girl is a liar based on a couple of red herrings like the meaningless photos of pre-existing scratches on her arms and the meaningless lack of DNA. Neither one of those things remotely proves innocence and the _pertinent_ injuries still require an explanation. > > I also think that (even though they probably won’t admit it) that the fact that she’s a stripper makes people assume that she must be a lying slut. **If** the players are innocent, how is it reasonable for them to explain anything? ---
**Author:** ![GawnFishin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@GawnFishin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GawnFishin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/611 "2006-04-25T14:09:00Z")
> [@KRM](#): > > **If** the players are innocent, how is it reasonable for them to explain anything? Don’t you understand, she made her complaint to the police and DA, she’s made her case and now it is the job of the accused to prove their innocents. Don’t you understand they way things are supposed to work. This isn’t about innocents or guilt this is about rape after all and no woman would falsely accuse any man of rape. I mean what would the odds be of that ever happening. 😃 > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I also think that (even though they probably won’t admit it) that the fact that she’s a stripper makes people assume that she must be a lying slut. **DtC** , I have a sister who is a stripper, I have a sister who is a lying slut as well. Question for you is how many sisters do I have? I don’t know if you you’re likely to believe me or not but the accused don’t have any obligation on them to explain her injuries. I believe that is for the prosecution to prove that they caused those injuries. And(I just love to start a sentence with the word And) from what I’ve seen of the evidence so far I wouldn’t be prepared to state that they are guilty. Benefit of the doubt, reasonable doubt, call it what you will. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/612 "2006-04-25T15:12:40Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The victim has injuries to the genital area consistent with forcible rape which still need to be explained. Do we know this? I have heard it expressed as “injuries consistent with sexual assault.” Which could be . . . just about anything from seeming “defensive wounds” to genital injuries. Do any of the reports made public in fact localize the injuries as being to the genital area? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/613 "2006-04-26T18:23:12Z")
In case anyone didn’t see thisl: [http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/25/duke.suspect/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/25/duke.suspect/index.html) So if I’m reading that right, his probationary sentence was revoked because the indictment here was taken as evidence of a new criminal act violating the terms of his suspended sentence. If the indictment’s not ultimately successful (his guilt is not proven), I’m assuming it’ll be too late for him to get the D.C. deal reinstated. I’m not sure if Nifong knew (or cared) that his indictment decision would have that kind of knock-on effect. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/614 "2006-04-27T02:46:44Z")
The current issue of Newsweek has a cover story on this case. Mostly it’s just stuff we’ve already gone over, but there were a few tidbits that may or may not help provide context for some of the datapoints. Several in this thread have expressed disgust regarding the email that one of the players sent. From this article: > [@Newsweek](#): > > The author of the e-mail told his buddies he wanted to hire some strippers and skin them and kill them while he ejaculated in his “Duke-issue spandex.” The email was said by team members to be a joking reference to the movie “American Psycho.” Wait, what? I haven’t seen American Psycho, and would appreciate if anyone who has could offer how closely this email could said to be a reference to it. If, for example, the email had said “I want to hire some strippers and eat their liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti”, and somebody tried to say how it was vulgar and disgusting and showed how vile the emailer was, I’d think that person would be totally clueless if they hadn’t seen the movie, or monumentally stupid if they had. So feedback on that quote would be much appreciated. Another point was the email the other stripper sent to the PR firm in New York: > [@](#): > > The e-mail begins, “Hi! My name is Kim and I am involved in the Duke Lacrosse scandal.” She goes on, “Although I am no celebrity and just an average citizen, I’ve found myself at the center of one of the biggest stories in the country. I’m worried about letting this opportunity pass me by without making the best of it and was wondering if you had any advice as to how to spin this to my advantage.” Now, this could be meaningless, or it could demonstrate an opportunist mindset. After getting to the end of the article, I started to think it was the latter, as another student from the same predominately black school of the accuser is quoted as saying: > [@](#): > > Chan Hall, 22, said, “It’s the same old stoy. Duke up, Central down.” Hall said he wanted to see the Duke students prosecuted “whether it happened or not. It would be justice for things that happened in the past.” If these are the attitudes of the accuser’s peers, it’s not hard to imagine she held them as well. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/615 "2006-04-27T02:56:38Z")
> [@lisacurl](#): > > That was the fakest fake crying I ever heard in the first 911 call about the alleged racial slurs being yelled out from the house on Buchanan. I’m thinking more and more that one or more of these guys insulted these women (possibly with racial slurs) and the more coherent of the two tried to make some trouble for them with the first 911 call. From the Newsweek article: > [@](#): > > The neighbor heard one of the boys yell, “Hey bitch, thank your grandpa for my nice cotton shirt.” Roberts called 911 and complained that some students at 610 Buchanan were taunting her and her friend with racial epithets. > […] > “I was angry and I had to tell somebody,” says Roberts. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/616 "2006-04-27T03:16:50Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > From this article:Wait, what? I haven’t seen American Psycho, and would appreciate if anyone who has could offer how closely this email could said to be a reference to it. I read the book. It’s pretty much about killing and/or skinning women. In just about every scene. It’s very possible that there was a larger point to it, but I missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/617 "2006-04-27T11:45:04Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > In case anyone didn’t see thisl: > > [http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/25/duke.suspect/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/25/duke.suspect/index.html) > > So if I’m reading that right, his probationary sentence was revoked because the indictment here was taken as evidence of a new criminal act violating the terms of his suspended sentence. I don’t think you characterized this correctly. It’s not necessarily the indictment that violated the terms of his sentence, it’s the fact that he didn’t follow those terms. The terms in question being a 9pm-6am curfew and staying away from places where alcohol is sold or consumed. While I’m skeptical about the rape charges being real, I’m fairly confident that this guy was at a party after 9pm and where alcohol was consumed. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/618 "2006-04-27T12:54:55Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > If these are the attitudes of the accuser’s peers, it’s not hard to imagine she held them as well. Another female student stated, in a local NPR story, that she was angry that the guys had were out on bail because it made her feel unsafe. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/619 "2006-04-27T13:34:41Z")
[Here](http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/main/index.cgi?7532) is a link to some links about the case. A lot to wade through but some very interesting stuff on both sides of the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/620 "2006-04-27T16:36:04Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I don’t think you characterized this correctly. It’s not necessarily the indictment that violated the terms of his sentence, it’s the fact that he didn’t follow those terms. The terms in question being a 9pm-6am curfew and staying away from places where alcohol is sold or consumed. > > While I’m skeptical about the rape charges being real, I’m fairly confident that this guy was at a party after 9pm and where alcohol was consumed. I got it wrong, and it seems it was a fair cop to revoke the alternative sentencing in D.C. regrardless of the rape issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153.md?page=32)