# Lying whore. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 10, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153 "2006-04-10T22:26:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/681 "2006-05-09T21:51:10Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#): > > which I base not on his position > . . .[/snip] > I feel much better now. Well good then. My “obsession” with women’s studies apparently runs to all of three posts that even contain the phrase (I haven’t bothered to look at whether some of them were, as I strongly suspect, simply re-quotes). So you are attacking that which does not exist. I guess there’s no such thing as “off topic” in the Pit. And I could probably plot a pretty linear curve between the unraveling of the facial plausibility of the accuser’s accusation (in which you apparently had a lot emotionally invested) and the vituperative ad hominem attacks on the messenger. I realize that the revelation she originally accused 20 guys has probably left you cranky. Address some of my real points, like about the dumbfuck prosecutor’s complete mis-reading of the rape shield rule, or walk on by, no? ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/682 "2006-05-09T21:53:09Z")
You might feel a lot better but that’s a shitty accusation to make without having the balls to back it up with at least a pit thread. The more I read about the case the more uncomfortable I am with it. It seems clear that at least one of the three charged could not have had anything to do with the assault. In addition, according to the St. Petersburg Times (looking for online cite), the three accussed are not from wealthy or privileged families at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/683 "2006-05-09T22:01:35Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Well good then. > > My “obsession” with women’s studies apparently runs to all of three posts that even contain the phrase (I haven’t bothered to look at whether some of them were, as I strongly suspect, simply re-quotes). So you are attacking that which does not exist. > > I guess there’s no such thing as “off topic” in the Pit. > > And I could probably plot a pretty linear curve between the unraveling of the facial plausibility of the accuser’s accusation (in which you apparently had a lot emotionally invested) and the vituperative ad hominem attacks on the messenger. I realize that the revelation she originally accused 20 guys has probably left you cranky. Address some of my real points, like about the dumbfuck prosecutor’s complete mis-reading of the rape shield rule, or walk on by, no? See? I said nothing about this case. I have no opinion about it. I actually feel less informed about it now that I’ve read this thread. Like I said, it’s not about your position. I might actually agree with that, if I could see past how much I fucking hate you. But like I said, I don’t want to back that up. I just want to say it. Neener. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/684 "2006-05-09T22:08:18Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > You might feel a lot better but that’s a shitty accusation to make without having the balls to back it up with at least a pit thread. Yes. I hate him. I feel like being shitty to him. Do you give people you hate balloons and ice cream? I do have the balls to Pit him, believe me. I’m too dumb to be cowardly when it comes to that stuff, or something. What I _don’t_ have is the sense that doing so would be good for me emotionally. I hate him so much I would start taking shit way too seriously. So if you want to say I lack the nervous system for it, go right ahead. I’m sure it does say something negative about me, anyway, just not that. I nitpick merely for the sake of accuracy; I’m aware that by indulging myself I’ve theoretically painted a target on my own back, and I don’t really care. I can get up and do something else besides sit here thinking about how much I can’t stand this asshole on the internet, and I highly advise you to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/685 "2006-05-09T22:16:26Z")
It was a decent nit-pick and I appreciate the explanation. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/686 "2006-05-10T04:29:31Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#): > > See? I said nothing about this case. I have no opinion about it. I actually feel less informed about it now that I’ve read this thread. Like I said, it’s not about your position. I might actually agree with that, if I could see past how much I fucking hate you. But like I said, I don’t want to back that up. I just want to say it. Neener. Huerta88 may possibly be a huge jerk IRL, but the large majority of his posts in this thread have been on point WRT grappling over fairly pointed rhetorical distnctions pertinent to the OP . That’s not to say he’s right or wrong, but he doesn’t seem to be a foaming a the mouth Nazi pig-dog just because he’s not willing to grant the claimant in this case much credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/687 "2006-05-10T14:13:26Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > In addition, according to the St. Petersburg Times (looking for online cite), the three accussed are not from wealthy or privileged families at all. Really? I thought we already saw pictures and descriptions of the $1M homes they grew up in? Now, are they from super powerful beyond belief rich families? Perhaps not, but if you can afford a nice house and private school in North NJ or LI, then you are indeed at least a little bit wealthy I would think. (not that thier wealth should have any bearing on the case, though some involved parties seem to want it to…) ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/688 "2006-05-10T16:04:03Z")
> [@Fat Chance](#): > > Really? I thought we already saw pictures and descriptions of the $1M homes they grew up in? > > Now, are they from super powerful beyond belief rich families? Perhaps not, but if you can afford a nice house and private school in North NJ or LI, then you are indeed at least a little bit wealthy I would think. > > (not that thier wealth should have any bearing on the case, though some involved parties seem to want it to…) I’ll do my best to dig up a cite. Read it on the plane on Sunday flying back from Tampa. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/689 "2006-05-10T16:42:04Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > I’ll do my best to dig up a cite. Read it on the plane on Sunday flying back from Tampa. The Newsweek article I quoted earlier showed pictures of the family homes, and the captions noted the million dollar plus pricetags. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/690 "2006-05-10T17:36:31Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Huerta88 may possibly be a huge jerk IRL, but the large majority of his posts in this thread have been on point WRT grappling over fairly pointed rhetorical distnctions pertinent to the OP . . well except for that whole “since white males statistically rarely rape black females, we should factor that into the mix” stuff. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/691 "2006-05-10T17:40:59Z")
should mention the above was a paraphrase, not attempting to claim as a direct quote. Sorry ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/692 "2006-05-10T17:49:01Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > The Newsweek article I quoted earlier showed pictures of the family homes, and the captions noted the million dollar plus pricetags. …and in NJ/NY, that will get you a surprisingly middle-class looking house. [Cite for Essex Fells, NJ](http://northernj.idx.prudentialnjproperties.com/details.aspx?firstrecord=0&VIP=Yahoo!+IDX&cc=realestate&fclose=n&newhome=n&za=and&fullnodeid=750007014&searchgeo=Essex+Fells%2c+NJ&searchtype=2&propertytype=1&sort=5&sortacdc=desc&searchminprice=850000&searchmaxprice=1250000) [Cite for Garden City, NY](http://idx.prudentialgaleria.com/details.aspx?firstrecord=9&VIP=Yahoo!+IDX&cc=realestate&fclose=n&newhome=n&za=and&fullnodeid=750007014&searchgeo=Garden+City%2c+NY&searchtype=2&propertytype=1&sort=5&sortacdc=desc&searchminprice=850000&searchmaxprice=1250000) ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/693 "2006-05-10T18:00:34Z")
This was in Sunday’s St. Petersburg Times. I can’t find the darn article online. It was a column but he made the claim that two of the accussed come from middle-class to low-middle-class familes (fireman and policeman). Not that any of this should matter. The case does look very flimsy though. ---
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/694 "2006-05-10T20:57:39Z")
> [@An Arky](#): > > …and in NJ/NY, that will get you a surprisingly middle-class looking house. > > [Cite for Essex Fells, NJ](http://northernj.idx.prudentialnjproperties.com/details.aspx?firstrecord=0&VIP=Yahoo!+IDX&cc=realestate&fclose=n&newhome=n&za=and&fullnodeid=750007014&searchgeo=Essex+Fells%2c+NJ&searchtype=2&propertytype=1&sort=5&sortacdc=desc&searchminprice=850000&searchmaxprice=1250000) > > [Cite for Garden City, NY](http://idx.prudentialgaleria.com/details.aspx?firstrecord=9&VIP=Yahoo!+IDX&cc=realestate&fclose=n&newhome=n&za=and&fullnodeid=750007014&searchgeo=Garden+City%2c+NY&searchtype=2&propertytype=1&sort=5&sortacdc=desc&searchminprice=850000&searchmaxprice=1250000) And that is why I live in an apartment in North NJ and probably will until I am 50 before I can afford a small dump of a house… (me bitter about housing prices in NJ? No…) ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/695 "2006-05-11T12:47:39Z")
Here is the latest (rumor): [http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=1948939](http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=1948939) Hmmm. This may suggest (“consistent with” always makes me wonder) she scratched him. Still no suggestion any DNA was recovered from any area in which sex usually deposits it. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/696 "2006-05-11T18:18:51Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Here is the latest (rumor): > > [http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=1948939](http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=1948939) > > Hmmm. This may suggest (“consistent with” always makes me wonder) she scratched him. Still no suggestion any DNA was recovered from any area in which sex usually deposits it. the fact that there was no DNA recovered from “any area in which sex usually deposits it” isn’t necessarily a conclusive fact that equals “there was no rape”. In addition to ‘safe sex’, rape is the appropriate charge in cases where objects other than penises are inserted into a persons vagina etc. again, not saying I believe that there was a rape, just making sure you understand the other variables involved. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/697 "2006-05-11T18:25:57Z")
> [@wring](#): > > the fact that there was no DNA recovered from “any area in which sex usually deposits it” isn’t necessarily a conclusive fact that equals “there was no rape”. In addition to ‘safe sex’, rape is the appropriate charge in cases where objects other than penises are inserted into a persons vagina etc. > > again, not saying I believe that there was a rape, just making sure you understand the other variables involved. The transcript of her “lineup” (in which she was shown only current Duke lacrosse players, not other attendees at the party, and not any “dummy” photos, contrary to what most people think of as a lineup) has her stating that one of the accused put his penis in her anus and vagina. There is no mention of her being violated with any other object. There is no mention of the rapist considerately practicing safe sex. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/698 "2006-05-11T18:28:13Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > The transcript of her “lineup” (in which she was shown only current Duke lacrosse players, not other attendees at the party, and not any “dummy” photos, contrary to what most people think of as a lineup) has her stating that one of the accused put his penis in her anus and vagina. There is no mention of her being violated with any other object. There is no mention of the rapist considerately practicing safe sex. [http://www.wral.com/slideshow/news/9141851/detail.html](http://www.wral.com/slideshow/news/9141851/detail.html) She says Seligmann violated her orally (again, no mention of a condom), Finnerty in the other orifices. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/699 "2006-05-11T19:35:50Z")
This was interesting [Lacrosse defense witness arrested](http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/438305.html) > [@](#): > > DURHAM - A Durham police detective investigating the Duke University lacrosse case arrested an alibi witness Wednesday on a 2 1/2-year-old misdemeanor warrant. Taxi driver Moezeldin Elmostafa said Investigator R.D. Clayton and another officer asked whether he had anything new to tell them about the rape case before driving him to the Durham County jail. He said no and was held for five hours, until a friend posted his bail on a shoplifting charge . Why was he arrested? > [@](#): > > 2003 charge > > Elmostafa was charged with a misdemeanor larceny that occurred Sept. 2, 2003, when a woman stole five purses worth $250 from the Hecht’s department store at Northgate Mall. > > Elmostafa said Wednesday that he had picked up Lisa Faye Hawkins and her daughter at their home and had taken them to the mall. Elmostafa said he waited in the taxi with the daughter while Hawkins shopped and then he drove the two home. > > Elmostafa said he later received a call asking him to speak with Hecht’s security. The security officer at Hecht’s said Hawkins had stolen some purses before getting into the taxi, Elmostafa said. > > Elmostafa said he gave the woman’s address and a copy of his driver’s license to the security guard, who thanked him for his help. > > “I am not responsible for what she did inside the store,” Elmostafa said. “I am just a taxi driver.” > > Hawkins pleaded guilty to the larceny three months later. > > Elmostafa said he heard nothing about the case until his arrest Wednesday. He spent five hours at the Durham County jail before a friend put up $700 for the bail. > > A Hecht’s spokesman could not be reached Wednesday evening. > > Conner said it was highly unusual for police to arrest someone for a misdemeanor more than two years after the crime. He contrasted the treatment of the taxi driver with that of Kim Roberts, the other dancer at the party. Conner said Roberts initially told police no rape occurred at the party but changed her story after she was arrested on a probation violation. District Attorney Mike Nifong later reduced Roberts’ bail. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/700 "2006-05-11T19:38:21Z")
Good to know the Durham police are out there protecting the public from taxi drivers who assisted an investigation of shoplifting 3 years ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153.md?page=36)