# Lying whore. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 10, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153 "2006-04-10T22:26:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 81
**Author:** ![Fir\_na\_tine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fir\_na\_tine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fir_na_tine)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1601 "2007-01-11T19:36:34Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] [Anatomy of a Frame.](http://durhamwonderland.blogspot.com/) [/QUOTE] An amazing chronology. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1602 "2007-01-11T19:40:40Z")
Seligmann is the one she described in her written statement as forcing her to perform fellatio and ejaculating in her mouth. Now, not so much. The defense motion can be read [here.](http://www.newsobserver.com/content/news/crime_safety/duke_lacrosse/story_graphics/20070111_motion.pdf) Long, but worth it for the so inclined. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1603 "2007-01-11T19:47:35Z")
There is no chance that Nifong can get a conviction, is there? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1604 "2007-01-11T19:51:41Z")
[QUOTE=adam yax] There is no chance that Nifong can get a conviction, is there? [/QUOTE] Almost certainly not. Unless by “get a conviction” you mean “get convicted.” On February 5th a hearing will be held on the defense motion challenging the photo lineup. The Alleged Victim is scheduled to testify. Stranger things have happened, but the smart money says she will not appear. Case closed. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1605 "2007-01-11T20:32:06Z")
The latest demonstrations of Dumbfuck Nifong’s criminally abusive conduct remind us that the Whore Crystal Mangum is not just too stupid or burned out to keep her story straight, not just stuck with an old lie that she can’t walk away from – she’s, well Lying (as LWs do). At least several elements of the Allegation v. 732(a) 3. are almost certainly new, intentional lies affirmatively engineered to fix the gaping holes (no, not hers, though all the spooge found on/in her from random johns, uh, individuals other than the lax players suggests that that foul portal is probably flopping like an empty sock) in her story, which she’s clearly learned of from the media or been coached on by Dumbfuck Nifong’s “Investigator.” Specifically, the withdrawal of the penetration allegation was just about unavoidable, as a belated response to explain away the lack of DNA evidence. And a close reading of the excellent Durhaminwonderland summary shows the not-coincidental shifting of her story on the timing of the “attack” – she’s now claiming she remembers just when it started (before she couldn’t), and has moved it forward in time substantially enough to take it out of the time frame for which Seligmann has the alibi evidence (of course, he had additional evidence that she and DN didn’t know about, in the form of a phone call to his girlfriend right during the middle of the new “attack” timeframe). We’ve been focusing, rightly so, on Dumbfuck Nifong’s abysmally absent ethics, intelligence, legal skills, and morality. But this latest revelation that pretty clearly shows Lying Whore Crystal to be actively manipulating her story, still, in an assiduous attempt to keep ruining these guys’ lives makes me want to call for a renewed moment of silent (or not so silent) despising of the Lying Whore and her Whorish Lies that started (and with which she’s to this day trying to continue) this whole crock of shit. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1606 "2007-01-11T20:52:19Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] No, but I am saying that this particular set of circumstances do not warrant a standard “line-up” procedure, either by photo or in person. In the situation I cited, the women did not identify one person, they identified that there was one attacker, fitting description X, who ran off into the darkness to parts unknown. The police drove around, passing who knows how many potential suspects, and hit upon a guy who happened to be wandering around the neighborhood and matched the description. At the time they positively identified him, there was only a description and a general neighborhood to distinguish him, yet he gets stood up alone to be identified. It is trivially easy to see how a person could get brought forth for identification when they had absolutely nothing to do with the crime, and it’s just as easy for a liar to finger someone wrongly, or for someone to be mistaken. Yet, this is a valid ID procedure. [/QUOTE] And do you think the there would be a conviction based on that ID alone? That is enough for the police to take someone into custody as a suspect, unless there is other evidence the defense attorney would tear the case to shreds. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1607 "2007-01-11T20:52:36Z")
Damn. I might have guessed y’all would be here before me to cover this. What struck me about the latest revelations is that Nifong knew that one of the accused had done nothing by the testimony of the LW, and responded to this knowledge not at all. He went right ahead. This goes beyong civil remedy. Nifong should be facing some serious prison time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1608 "2007-01-11T20:53:05Z")
Damn. I might have guessed y’all would be here before me to cover this. What struck me about the latest revelations is that Nifong knew that one of the accused had done nothing by the testimony of the LW, and responded to this knowledge not at all. He went right ahead. This goes beyond civil remedy. Nifong should be facing some serious prison time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1609 "2007-01-11T21:06:54Z")
[QUOTE=adam yax] There is no chance that Nifong can get a conviction, is there? [/QUOTE] I dunno – he might well get himself a conviction that will send him to the pokey for a while… ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1610 "2007-01-11T21:59:08Z")
[QUOTE=rayh] And do you think the there would be a conviction based on that ID alone? That is enough for the police to take someone into custody as a suspect, unless there is other evidence the defense attorney would tear the case to shreds. [/QUOTE] I think you’ve been watching a little bit too much CSI. A personal identification is definitely enough to confict someone of a crime. If the crime is one where additional evidence would be expected (rape) then identification alone may not be enough. Many crimes don’t carry that sort of expectation, what additional evidence would you have in a mugging, if the guy kept only your cash? ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1611 "2007-01-11T22:51:27Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] I think you’ve been watching a little bit too much CSI. A personal identification is definitely enough to confict someone of a crime. If the crime is one where additional evidence would be expected (rape) then identification alone may not be enough. Many crimes don’t carry that sort of expectation, what additional evidence would you have in a mugging, if the guy kept only your cash? [/QUOTE] Yes, you are quite right. [Eyewitness testimony alone can convict](http://www.truthinjustice.org/witness.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1612 "2007-01-12T00:07:55Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] A personal identification is definitely enough to confict someone of a crime. [/QUOTE] Yessir, that’s some powerful testimony there. From the defense motion: > [@](#): > > While the accuser now claims that “Adam” and “Matt” were both of the names used by Reade Seligmann, she provided vastly different descriptions for “Matt” and “Adam” on March 16: “Matt was heavy set with short hair and weighs 260lbs to 270lbs while “Adam” was “short, red cheeks, fluffy hair, stubby face with brown hair. Significantly, she also described “Brett” as “chubby” and claims that she saw a picture of him in the house. Similarly she now claims that Dave Evans is “Adam” and “Brett,” even though she gave two different descriptions for Adam and Brett on March 16. In short, the accuser has provided three different descriptions for what she now claims are only two men. Of course, if the SANE interview was truthful, then Dave Evans (as “Dan” who is really “Matt”) is “Matt,” “Adam,” and “Brett,” which means that the accuser has given three different descriptions for the same person . . . [and] if the accuser’s December 21 statement is to be believed, then “Dan” and “Brett” are the same person; yet in her written statement of April 6, she claimed that she was beaten by both Dan and Brett, and never informed police that it was the same person. Also: > [@](#): > > Since Dave Evans had a “5 o’clock shadow” in the picture the accuser was shown on April 4, and since her response was that he “looks like him without the mustache,” her claim now that a “mustache” is not a “mustache” indicates that her statement on April 4 is, again, no longer reliable. And: > [@](#): > > Rather than attempt to identify her attackers as Matt, Brett and Adam, the accuser used the names of the Defendants in her most recent telling of her story. Specifically, the investigator noted that ‘Inv. Wilson asked [the accuser] to tell him whose names the guys were using on March 13, 2006 since she knows their real names.’ The State has repeatedly represented to this Court that no substantive discussions of this case took place with the accuser from April 6, 2006 until this last interview. The fact that the accuser now “knows their real names” indicates that she has learned their names from the extensive publicity that this case has received, publicity that has necessarily included the Defendants’ faces as well as their names. It cannot be known at this time with any reliability what else she has learned from this publicity. This, in turn, means that the accuser’s present recollection of who allegedly attacked her and how, has been irreparably tainted by this publicity and weighs strongly against any in-court identification by her of the Defendants. Pertinent snips from K C’s blog. > [@](#): > > **March 16:** Operating under the assumption that, as the accuser had claimed, her attackers were named Matt, Adam, and Bret, the Durham police constructed a photo lineup array, improperly using “filler” photos of other lacrosse players, not people uninvolved with the case, as the guidelines suggest. She identified no one as her attacker, claimed to be 100% certain of seeing four players someplace at the party, and 70% certain she saw Reade Seligmann. At least two of the descriptions given by the accuser resembled no member of the Duke lacrosse team. > > **March 21:** When the accuser returned to the police station to pick up some of her other items, she was shown two more six-player arrays. She recognized no one, despite being shown Dave Evans’ photo twice. > > **April 4, 11.29 am:** The accuser’s procedurally flawed photo ID session began. Eventually, she identified four players, of whom Nifong charged three. (He couldn’t charge all four, since none of the accuser’s myriad stories had cited an attack by four players, though she had claimed at one point that five had attacked her.) The accuser said she was 100% certain that Reade Seligmann looked like a person who attacked her, while she commented, after seeing a photo of Dave Evans, to be 90% certain that the photo resembled someone with a mustache who attacked her. Evans has no mustache. Give it up, **Cheesesteak**. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1613 "2007-01-12T00:10:28Z")
I didn’t think **cheesesteak** was claiming that **in this case** eyewitness testimoney was sufficient, but that (correctly) it has historically been sufficient. Naturally if the eyewitness (as in this case) seems to be not particularly credible, their testimoney alone would not be likely to convict. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1614 "2007-01-12T00:36:26Z")
[QUOTE=wring] I didn’t think **cheesesteak** was claiming that **in this case** eyewitness testimoney was sufficient, but that (correctly) it has historically been sufficient. [/QUOTE] Then he is making a point that does not need to be made, i.e., en eyewitness ID is good enough when it is good enough. > [@](#): > > Naturally if the eyewitness (as in this case) seems to be not particularly credible, their testimoney alone would not be likely to convict. Oddly, he finds nothing wrong with the photo array, credibility be damned. [QUOTE=Huerta88] We’ve been focusing, rightly so, on Dumbfuck Nifong’s abysmally absent ethics, intelligence, legal skills, and morality. But this latest revelation that pretty clearly shows Lying Whore Crystal to be actively manipulating her story, still, in an assiduous attempt to keep ruining these guys’ lives makes me want to call for a renewed moment of silent (or not so silent) despising of the Lying Whore and her Whorish Lies that started (and with which she’s to this day trying to continue) this whole crock of shit. [/QUOTE] I have to believe that she is being coached. In her handwritten statement she describes penises being used to penetrate her. Now she is not so sure. This perhaps isbarely credible if you kinda squint at it sideways and try not to think too hard, but only if she leaves Seligmann out of it, as it is he that supposedly ejaculated into her mouth. Her story changes so as to correlate with each new legal finding; I am not convinced that she is astute enough to do that on her own. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1615 "2007-01-12T00:38:36Z")
[QUOTE=wring] I didn’t think **cheesesteak** was claiming that **in this case** eyewitness testimoney was sufficient, but that (correctly) it has historically been sufficient. Naturally if the eyewitness (as in this case) seems to be not particularly credible, their testimoney alone would not be likely to convict. [/QUOTE] See the link in post #1611. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1616 "2007-01-12T00:51:17Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Give it up, **Cheesesteak**. [/QUOTE] I’m sorry, was I responding to anything you had to say? I gave up on trying to explain my opinion of this to you when it became clear that you are incapable of seeing that a particlar process of identification may be valid even if the “eyewitness” in this case is a lying whore. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1617 "2007-01-12T03:41:12Z")
[QUOTE=rayh] See the link in post #1611. [/QUOTE] w/a/d/r and all, I did **not** contend that eye witness testimony is always solid. I know far too well how problematic it can be. I merely contend (and, correctly, as even you seemto understand) that it often is compelling and juries love it, resulting in convictions. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1618 "2007-01-12T12:03:12Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] I’m sorry, was I responding to anything you had to say? I gave up on trying to explain my opinion of this to you when it became clear that you are incapable of seeing that a particlar process of identification may be valid even if the “eyewitness” in this case is a lying whore. [/QUOTE] Oh, I get it, What I don’t get is your insistence that that this particular ID process was valid in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It smacks of obstinance bordering on stupidity, and renders your other opinions suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1619 "2007-01-12T22:53:12Z")
Seems that one of the faculty members at Duke has resigned from her committee positions because the school has decided to readmit these (innocent until proven guilty, right?) two accused students. [Link](http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/1134801/) Most of it is just the typical bullshit you’d expect from a liberal college professor; last year when it fit her agenda she was ready to boil the lacrosse team in oil, now that it looks like, hey, they’re innocent and all that shit she’s upset about how the issues of “race and gender equality” are going to be discussed. Typical ivory tower ignorance in other words. Still, I have to say that this: > [@](#): > > Tricia Dowd, the mother of a player on last year’s lacrosse team, also sent Holloway an e-mail about her own son, who had a mental illness and was convicted of the rape and stabbing of a Raleigh schoolteacher. He was shot to death in 1999 as he tried to escape from a prison work detail. > > “I wondered, do you attack our sons, because you feel guilt for your own failures as a mother?” Dowd wrote. Made me go “Ow!” That’s going for the jugular right there. It wouldn’t surprise me if there was a grain of truth in it, but still…:eek: :eek: :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Geobabe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/geobabe/32/3908_2.png) [@Geobabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geobabe)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/1620 "2007-01-12T23:03:28Z")
News: [Nifong has asked to be recused.](http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=2791514) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153.md?page=80) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153.md?page=82)