Well, goduke.com, Duke’s official sports Web site, seems to have . . . conveniently blanked all its men’s lacrosse rosters. However, the google cache shows there are members of the team by those names.
Hadn’t heard that info before though.
You ever seen a really raunchy stripper?
I went to a bachelor party once with a stripper who pulled out a leather mask with a giant dildo where the nose would be, and for 50 bucks, we could take in any three holes.
I’m not sure what she had in mind after the obvious three, but we never took her up on the offer. For some reason, I doubt that the guys who would take her up on the offer were necessarily looking out for her health.
Now for the pure specuilation part:
I also suspect that a rape examiner is probably a little predisposed to err on the side of the accuser in these examinations. Let the courts determine the rest. If that examiner says “nothing happened”, that’s probably just about the end of the story, wouldn’t you think?
They pretty much did that because of the death threats those guys were getting. It is important to bear in mind that nobody has been charged with a crime so far, and that at the most three teem members may be charged. Yet, the entire team has been threatened and harassed.
Well gee, that’s nice of them. I wonder if they’re excused from classes too, to avoid having to be in public?
What is your beef exactly? The soccer season is over. The coach has resigned. There is a fair chance that the team will be disbanded. Innocent men have received death threats. Innocent men have had their reputations sullied, perhaps irrevocably. Non students sporting Duke gear have been attacked. Cite. And you are pissing and moaning because their pictures are not on the Duke website? Pictures you can easily find elsewhere? What the fuck are you on about?
The defense attorneys, who are currently speaking to their jury pool, have said that their clients’ DNA was not found on the victim. Do we know whether any DNA was found on her? Do we know, for example, whether there was DNA that was found that definitively excludes the players? I suspect that isn’t the case, or the defense attorneys would say that someone else’s DNA was found.
I suspect that whatever DNA was found is either so minimal that they weren’t able to get enough to match, or that the match is a lower percentage (60%? 40%) such that the defense attorneys can legitimately say what they said. That would also explain why the DA isn’t dropping this. With a lower match, he can’t argue “the DNA proves it was him!” but he might still be able to get it in and let the jury decide. The mere fact that there isn’t DNA that matches a student doesn’t prove a thing. It’s an interesting phenomenon that people now are according almost divine status to the discovery of DNA, but from a legal perspective, it’s a bit silly.
There are also rather common injuries associated with rape. If a woman fights while having sex, there is generally more tearing (and tearing in a particular pattern) and some pretty common pattern bruising. For a nurse trained in looking for those symptoms, it would be relatively easy to say whether the injuries found are consistent with rape or not.
So the absence of the DNA of a third-party is probative of the fact that these guys did it?
Again, I’m impressed by the safe-sex practices of three raving racist drunken fratboy rapists in avoiding (during the course of a prolonged sex assault) any appreciable exchange of organic fluids or solids. At least we can commend them for that! Maybe their sentence (let’s just jump right ahead, enough of this folderol) can include some community service lecturing on safe sex practices.
They are speaking to their jury pool because the actions of the DA have forced their hand. He has been trying it in the press from day one. He has publically proclaimed them to be guilty before any charges have even been filed.
To be fair, he tried it to the mob on the “victim’s” campus yesterday (what I referred to earlier as his Arsenio Hall moment, replete with audience hootin’ and hollerin’).
In as much as this agrees with my premise, I am not sure what you are getting at. If there is a mob he has had a large hand in making it. This was no hostile audience.
His appearance at all was inappropriate, in my opinion. There have been no charges. Nothing has gone to a grand jury, if appropriate. He is trying these men in the press, pure and simple. before the DNA results came back he was waiting for them before pressing charges. Now, he says they are irrelevant, and that sufficient evidence exists to charge someone. He needs to put up or shut up. His only problem with putting up is that when he does so the defense will have access to his evidence. If it is strong enough why is he afraid to show it?
Are you saying that you think something like that was going on at the party and that’s why her injuries were consistent with rape? That’s really reaching. Just because she’s a stripper doesn’t mean she’s a whore.
None of us know the exact facts, but after reading that report on the Smoking Gun I can’t help but believe her. The story just rings true to me. Of course I could be wrong, but that report turned my stomach.
How do you reach that conclusion? It’s utterly irrational.
Here are some truths: the media doesn’t understand science. The media spews out what they’re told to spew out. The media, very often, gets it wrong, particularly in their rush to print sensationalism.
Here, the basis for anyone’s belief – in either guilt or innocence – is reports made by the media. My point for the reading-comprehension challenged is simply that relying on incomplete media reports is a fool’s game. There are many, many things we aren’t being told that could skew our opinion one way or another. By way of example and not limitation, there are literally dozens of questions about the DNA testing that would inform our opinion, but we aren’t being given that information. Thus, the defendants’ attorneys, preaching to a CSI-saturated audience, are attempting to plant seeds that they later can use at trial to argue that the DNA results whatever they may be, and we simply don’t know at this point, cannot be a basis to find their clients guilty.
I was just responding to the poster who wrote, “I would think bruises, tears, bleeding and other signs of forced entry would be quite suggestive of rape as opposed to consensual penetration”
I was simply suggesting that even if she did have signs “suggestive of rape”, that they could have come from – what I’ve seen – stripper behavior.
To be sure, that was the most extreme stripper I’ve ever seen. That was at a private party, but this was a girl who did the “banana through the goalpost” trick.
It’s not a stretch for me to think that she could have engaged in behaviors that probably looked like rape, or at least really rough sex.
Now, this girl at Duke may have never done anything like that. I was just offering up the possibility.
[sarcasm][/sarcasm] was omitted from my post. We view this the same way.
What then was the point of your comment:
unless you thought that this somehow weakened the defense case, or failed to make it as strong as it could be?
That’s possible, I guess. But I have to stand up for strippers everywhere when I say that is whore behavior, not stripper behavior.
Here is what we do know. Based on the results of a rape kit and a woman’s accusations, the DA obtained a court order to collect DNA samples from all the white members of Duke’s lacrosse team, including members who were not even there at the time it is alleged the rape was committed. Subsequently he said to the press that he was waiting for the results of the DNA tests. He received the results, and copied them to the attorneys hired by the team members, who stated to the press that there was no DNA evidence connecting anyone on the team to the complainant in any way whatsoever. THe DA has made not one comment to refute this claim, presumably not out of shyness, as he has been hogging the spotlight from day one.
None of these facts are contingent upon the press’s understanding of science.
Oh, I gotcha.
Yes, if I were making a distinction, I’d definitely call her more of a whore than a stripper.
I’m not sure where they found her, but I don’t think she was listed in the yellow pages as “whore”. So, when I hear “exotic dancer”, I imagine she could have been doing something like that.
I’ll be buying the Kanin article momentarily. For now, the FBI:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/Cius_97/95CRIME/95crime2.pdf
(Page 20):
Anyone have any statistics for how common white-on-black sexual assaults are, by the way?
I don’t see why this is relevant and I don’t know why you are playing the race card so heavy handedly like this. Doesn’t this make you are guilty as those “race-baiting” protesters in Durham?
And Trunk while I accept your anecdote about the whore/stripper, I wouldn’t imagine that the woman you encountered had injuries as a result of her actions. Having loose orifices that permit the easy insertion of big objects is not the same thing as having tears and bruises and other signs of trauma.