# Lynn, please provide cites for the rule you have asserted **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 25, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359 "2009-02-25T13:24:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/41 "2009-02-25T18:32:28Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > I don’t know when or why they started being allowed but I suspect some confusion among TPTB. I’m going to start sounding like a broken record, but I, and many others here don’t know why they ever _wouldn’t_ be allowed. They are not mean spirited. They are not directed at anyone. As has been pointed out here already, a short list of creative insult enthusiasts include Shakespeare, Monty Python, and Cecil Adams. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/42 "2009-02-25T18:33:03Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > If Pythonesque insult game threads are so offensive I did not think it was offensive. I still don’t. > [@](#): > > The simple fact of the matter, as confirmed by you actions, and as established by your precedent, is that anyone with a lick of common sense can see that an insult game thread is no more than harmless fun. I had no problem with the thread, so I didn’t close it. That’s really the end of the story from where I sit. I also couldn’t remember ever seeing one in my time on the boards before. If there was a general rule in place prior to that time, I just didn’t know about it because it hadn’t come up. Ta-da. It actually IS possible for us to be unaware of obscure rules or to have different opinions on things. There are about 18 mods and admins for crying out loud. Lynn and I also don’t mod the same forum. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/43 "2009-02-25T18:34:49Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > I’m going to start sounding like a broken record, but I, and many others here don’t know why they ever _wouldn’t_ be allowed. They are not mean spirited. They are not directed at anyone. As has been pointed out here already, a short list of creative insult enthusiasts include Shakespeare, Monty Python, and Cecil Adams. For that matter, creative insulting is \*encouraged \*in the BBQ Pit. You can look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/44 "2009-02-25T18:34:52Z")
> [@SomeUserName](#): > > So you have been here since 1999 but missed the thread I linked from 2000 that was in the Pit about making up the best insults and was not locked? As you said, that thread may have been pre-dated such threads being locked. Also, threads go unlocked if TPTB don’t notice them. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/45 "2009-02-25T18:36:34Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > I’m going to start sounding like a broken record, but I, and many others here don’t know why they ever _wouldn’t_ be allowed. IIRC, they started being closed around the time of **TubaDiva** ’s “let’s raise the tone of the board” push. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/46 "2009-02-25T18:38:43Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I was under the impression that you had quite a low opinion of me. Based on what? Please provide your cites. For example: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10835588&postcount=53](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10835588&postcount=53) > [@Generally one changes a rule THEN enforces it.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/53): > > Thanks for the clarification [re. FOAD], Lynn. > > Needless to say, I am concerned that rudeness will be sanctioned in the pit, and that there are two standards based on whether the recipient of the little balls of deficate derision is a common poster or a mod. I think that the value of the pit is that it is a place where one can let loose, including being rude to each other. > > That being said, I do appreciate your having clarified the matter. Thanks, and best wishes. or: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3608450&postcount=68](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3608450&postcount=68) > [@All wrapped up!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-wrapped-up/181500/68): > > Yay Lynn! I’m so glad to learn that you are doing OK! What I have is a low opinion of is your closing a poopular thread rather than moving it, your claiming a not-currently-posted pit specific rule applies to all fora, and rather than cleaning up the mess you made, your becoming passive aggressive. Unfortunately, you now appear to be taking it personally. Please don’t. Do not confuse my low opinion of a particular moderation action by you with my opinon of you. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: I wish you the best. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/47 "2009-02-25T18:43:35Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > As you said, that thread may have been pre-dated such threads being locked. Also, threads go unlocked if TPTB don’t notice them. Veeb and UncleBeer participated in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/48 "2009-02-25T18:53:19Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Veeb and UncleBeer participated in that thread. They noticed it but were such threads being actively discouraged at the time? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/49 "2009-02-25T18:57:18Z")
Not relevant. Early on in 2000 it was OK. Most recently at the start of this winter it was OK. If the Boards or part thereof went off into left field for a while, but then returned, that is no reason to assume that we should still be out there or go out there again. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/50 "2009-02-25T19:06:12Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > If the Boards or part thereof went off into left field for a while, but then returned, that is no reason to assume that we should still be out there or go out there again. There’s that “let’s raise the tone of the board” thing. With nothing to indicate otherwise, one should assume that it’s still in effect. Or did **Tuba** decide to let it drop and not tell anyone? I asked her about that when the last “yo mama” thread popped up but didn’t get an answer. This is why I suspect confusion among TPTB regarding the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/51 "2009-02-25T19:09:40Z")
Take a look at the November precedent, and at Ed’s recent statements set out in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/52 "2009-02-25T19:21:49Z")
Once again, the question should not be whether or not **Lynn** pulled something out of her ass (there is a precendent), but whether or not TPTB are all on the same page. Was the attempt to raise the tone of the board dropped or not? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/53 "2009-02-25T19:55:29Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Once again, the question should not be whether or not **Lynn** pulled something out of her ass (there is a precendent), but whether or not TPTB are all on the same page. Was the attempt to raise the tone of the board dropped or not? I can’t say whether Tuba’s wish to improve the tone of the SDMB was completed or is still in progress, but obviously Ed wanted to and is at the moment improving the tone of The Pit, so let’s assume that TPTB are still trying to improve overall the tone of the SDMB, and then question whether the recently closed creative insult thread was in accordance with Tuba’s direction to improve the tone of the SDMB. We have to assume that any long-standing moderator would be aware of Tuba’s direction to improve the tone of the board, for that would not be an obscure rule. The tone of the November 2008 insult game was immediate and obvious to the long-standing mod who participated in it and who acted to place it in the proper forum rather than close it because as a game it was not pit worthy. Today that mod has recently confirmed that he had no problem with that thread, that he did not find it offensive, and that he still doesn’t. That suggests to me that the November 2008 insult game thread met with Tuba’s improved tone standard, and that it stands as the precedent for what is appropriate in tone concerning insult threads. Now let’s look at the present creative insult thread. Not only did it meet the tone standards of the November insult game thread, but it exceeded those standards by its posts not being abusive to any person, not being directed at any specific person, and not using profanity, in accordance with Ed’s recent dictums concerning tone. Furthermore, Ed has recently stated that “There are all sorts of ingenious and scabrously funny comments you can make that don’t involve saying “fuck you,”” which obviously implies that either ingenious and scabrously funny comments are in line with Tuba’s improved tone standard, or her standard no longer stands. That is why it is irrelevant whether or not Tuba’s direction for improved tone still stands: either way, the recent insult competition thread was of appropriate tone. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/54 "2009-02-25T19:59:19Z")
Why are you assuming **TubaDiva** was aware of (or signed off on) a thread posted to a forum she doesn’t moderate? Your series of assumptions doesn’t make sense, and in most cases, we don’t consult every single mod before acting. Meanwhile if you want insult games, I’d suggest emailing some mods and we might take up the issue, if you want a super duper official ruling or something. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/55 "2009-02-25T20:05:57Z")
You know, you guys might get a little farther with people if you (meaning, the mods) stopped being needlessly sarcastic to people who are posting eminently reasonable, non-sarcastic, and non-insulting posts. I am referring to **Marley23’s** “super duper official ruling” comment. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/56 "2009-02-25T20:06:28Z")
I am assuming that when it was raised in this thread that at some time in the past, Tuba directed that the tone of the SDMB should be improved, that she did indeed do this. I that is not the case, then the entire discussion as to whether or not insult threads meet her standard is irrelevant. As far as a super duper official ruling or someting goes, one was given by Lynn, as cited in the OP, only it turns out that it was not true. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/57 "2009-02-25T20:20:12Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > You know, you guys might get a little farther with people if you (meaning, the mods) stopped being needlessly sarcastic to people who are posting eminently reasonable, non-sarcastic, and non-insulting posts. I am referring to **Marley23’s** “super duper official ruling” comment. Yes, heaven forfend I got a teensy bit sarcastic in response to comments that Lynn “[claimed] rules that simply do not exist.” If there’s a rule about these threads, obviously it has not been applied with any regularity. So: you could start a thread in what you think is the right forum (hint: I think the Pit would be a bad call), or better yet, you could ask the mods of what you believe the right forum to be, which Lynn already suggested, or you could just send an email to any mod and give us some time to talk it over. It’s not like anyone got warned or banned over the closing of the original thread. If other posters remember similar threads being locked in the past, **Muffin** , there evidently IS some precedent for it. But like I said, it looks like there hasn’t been a consistent standard. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/58 "2009-02-25T20:34:16Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > As far as a super duper official ruling or someting goes, one was given by Lynn, as cited in the OP, only it turns out that it was not true. That’s incorrect. All it does mean is that a mod wasn’t aware of what we’ve done before with a certain type of thread that doesn’t pop up all that often. Had I seen the thread Marley moved, I would have closed it–because that’s what we’ve done in the past. Have there been insult threads we’ve missed and that are still open? Probably, but that doesn’t mean we allow insult threads; it just means we’re human and we miss some threads. So, no, Lynn wasn’t making anything up, nor was she acting without precedent. Now, if you feel the rule is flawed and you’d like to propose allowing those types of threads, I’d suggest starting a new thread. (It might seem like a silly idea, but a proposal and the arguments behind it might get overlooked hidden under the title of this thread.) ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/59 "2009-02-25T20:35:55Z")
Sorry. I guess it was too much to ask. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359/60 "2009-02-25T21:05:15Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > However, those old rules have been in effect since I first posted them, and have been occasionally enforced. To the best of my knowledge, those rules were superceded by **Giraffe** ’s set, which have now been superceded by **Ed** ’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynn-please-provide-cites-for-the-rule-you-have-asserted/487359.md?page=4)