# Lynndie England--Mental deficiency? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 24, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283 "2005-05-24T17:05:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/1 "2005-05-24T17:05:38Z")
Some time ago, when Lynndie England’s guilty plea was rejected, someone made a point about a mental deficiency from which she suffers. Despite some Googling, I wasn’t able to find anything on the subject. I’m sorry I haven’t got more to get the ball rolling, but does anyone else know anything about that? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/2 "2005-05-24T17:09:28Z")
Being from West Virgina? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/3 "2005-05-24T17:15:32Z")
It was brought up by the defense during the sentencing hearing. A school psychologist said she was oxygen deprived when she was born; she was speech impaired and slow to read. > [@](#): > > Rick Hernandez, a defense lawyer, said the psychologist’s testimony helped England by establishing that her ability to reason was lower than that of her comrades. > > “She is clearly in a different mental capacity… than any of the others accused,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/4 "2005-05-24T17:26:41Z")
Does anyone else see her face and think “What, me worry?” ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/5 "2005-05-24T17:32:43Z")
I read on the NY Times website that when she was in elementary school, she was examined a couple of times over a period of years by a school psychologist, and the implication was that her intelligence was way below average. Later that day I would not find the article again, they had changed it or something. I will take another look… ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/6 "2005-05-24T17:35:53Z")
[Oxygen-deprived at birth](http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=725490) [Another link](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7683481/) Just Google for Lynndie England school psychologist ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/7 "2005-05-24T18:52:03Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > . . . someone made a point about a mental deficiency from which she suffers. Perhaps they meant \*\*moral \*\*deficiency. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/8 "2005-05-24T19:29:13Z")
We may be mentally deficient, but at least we can spell. > [@Si Amigo](#): > > Being from West Virgina? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/9 "2005-05-24T19:35:01Z")
> [@Si Amigo](#): > > Being from West Virgina? Hmm? If she was oxygen-deprived at birth, that may mean she was stuck in her mother’s virgina, that’s true. I don’t think it’s known whether she was facing west or not. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/10 "2005-05-24T22:51:13Z")
I always thought she was just, you know, dumb. No offense or anything. Not everyone is born with Cecil Adams-esque intelligence. Nor is everyone with a lower IQ than Cecil automatically retarded. It’s possible to be dumb without being retarded, isn’t it? I’m sure being from West Virginia had nothing to do with it. There are dumb people everywhere. Do we really need an excuse (oxygen deprivation at birth) or a scientific-sounding label? What’s wrong with… dumb? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/11 "2005-05-24T23:08:28Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > I always thought she was just, you know, dumb. > > No offense or anything. Not everyone is born with Cecil Adams-esque intelligence. Nor is everyone with a lower IQ than Cecil automatically retarded. It’s possible to be dumb without being retarded, isn’t it? I’m sure being from West Virginia had nothing to do with it. There are dumb people everywhere. > > Do we really need an excuse (oxygen deprivation at birth) or a scientific-sounding label? What’s wrong with… dumb? Well, the oxygen deprivation factor explains the lack of intelligence, partially, and adds a level of bathos. Obviously, as things are she didn’t wind up a dribbling idiot, but one can’t help but wonder what her outlook would have been had she not suffered the O2 deprivation at birth. How many more points of IQ would she have had to kick around? How many more options in her life? ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/12 "2005-05-24T23:25:20Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > There are dumb people everywhere. Yes indeed there are. In fact I often (always even) feel like I’m drowning in a sea of stupid people. And sometimes I feel pretty stupid myself. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/13 "2005-05-25T01:32:57Z")
> [@abcnews.com](#): > > When asked by judge Col. James Pohl whether England knew right from wrong, Denne said she had a compliant personality and tended to listen to authority figures. Hey, screw mental acuity, forget knowledge of right from wrong. She _follows orders._ The perfect soldier! ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/14 "2005-05-25T03:18:58Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > I always thought she was just, you know, dumb. > > No offense or anything. Not everyone is born with Cecil Adams-esque intelligence. Nor is everyone with a lower IQ than Cecil automatically retarded. It’s possible to be dumb without being retarded, isn’t it? I’m sure being from West Virginia had nothing to do with it. There are dumb people everywhere. > > Do we really need an excuse (oxygen deprivation at birth) or a scientific-sounding label? What’s wrong with… dumb? Or, in the words of a fictional “different-capacity” recruit, “stupid is as stupid does”. She would not have qualified to enlist were she seriously developmentally disabled, even if a rear-guard 2d- or 3rd- echelon company may not exactly get the pick of the crop. And even then you are expected to assume responsibility for your part, if your caught in something unkosher. A lack of “moral intelligence”, heck, even outrigth sociopathic traits, can go perfectly undetected for whole lifetimes if the person manages to not let it interfere with visibly “normal” functioning. Or if their managers wink-and-nudge at the misbehavior. BTW, this thread is likely to become an IMHO or GD on whether this is a valid legal tactic or a valid excuse very shortly. > [@Beware of Doug](#): > > Hey, screw mental acuity, forget knowledge of right from wrong. She follows orders. The perfect soldier! Do you have a contribution to actually answering the questions raised? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/15 "2005-05-25T04:05:15Z")
; > [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > We may be mentally deficient, but at least we can spell. Sorry. I did mean from Wet Vagina. :wally But aren’t we all. 😛 oh how un-politically correct from me . 😉 Must remember to spell check . . . ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lynndie-england-mental-deficiency/305283/16 "2005-05-25T10:47:38Z")
> [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > We may be mentally deficient, but at least we can spell. At least Montanans don’t top-post. (Seriously. It’s annoying.)