# M\*A\*S\*H - would a full colonel really run a hospital? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 17, 2009, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732 "2009-05-17T07:33:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/1 "2009-05-17T07:33:35Z")
I was wondering - isn’t a colonel pretty high-ranking to be running a hospital? Henry was a Lt Col, as near as I can tell from the insignia, but wasn’t Potter a full colonel, with an eagle and everything? Would someone just one step down from the general officer ranks be running a hospital? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/2 "2009-05-17T07:52:11Z")
I don’t know about a MASH unit but in a modern military hospital you can’t swing a dead cat without hitting three full bird colonels. The medical corps is not the same as the rest of the military. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/3 "2009-05-17T08:00:53Z")
According to Wikipedia, Henry Blake was indeed a Lt. Colonel. [Henry Blake - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Blake) And Sherman Potter was a full Colonel. [List of M\*A\*S\*H characters - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_T._Potter) see the photo showing the eagle, which is a “full bird” Colonel. My google fu does not reveal if full colonels generally run MASH units. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/4 "2009-05-17T08:03:57Z")
from the wikipedia entry on [CSH (Combat Support Hospital):](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Support_Hospital) “The CSH is the successor to the Mobile Army Surgical Hospital or MASH. It is differentiated by the capability of its equipment and size, with the CSH being by far the larger organization, and is commanded by a Colonel (O-6), rather than a Lieutenant Colonel (O-5).” But for the M_A_S\*H tv series, the Col. Potter character was already a veteran of two wars (WWI and WWII) Since that would have made him at least a 31 year veteran of the army the writers/producers whoever may have thought it was best to make him a full colonel. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/5 "2009-05-17T08:18:33Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > from the wikipedia entry on [CSH (Combat Support Hospital):](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Support_Hospital) > > “The CSH is the successor to the Mobile Army Surgical Hospital or MASH. It is differentiated by the capability of its equipment and size, with the CSH being by far the larger organization, and is commanded by a Colonel (O-6), rather than a Lieutenant Colonel (O-5).” > > But for the M_A_S\*H tv series, the Col. Potter character was already a veteran of two wars (WWI and WWII) Since that would have made him at least a 31 year veteran of the army the writers/producers whoever may have thought it was best to make him a full colonel. That still does not mean that there is only one colonel (or Navy Captain) at a CSH (pronounced “cash”) at any given time. Just that the commander happens to be one. The medical corps tends to be rank heavy and doctors are assigned by specialty, not rank. I am currently about 2 miles from a CSH and I guarantee there are several colonels running around. Nurses are also commisioned officers so there may be some colonel nurses in a CSH. It is also very common to have nurses that outrank doctors. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/6 "2009-05-17T08:38:51Z")
Was that true in Korea? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/7 "2009-05-17T09:46:15Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > Was that true in Korea? Which part? Rank heavy? Probably. You can stay in the medical corps and gain rank without having very many military duties. I’ve been in the military for a while but I have not been in the medical corps. I of course have had dealings with them from time to time. Their ranks and military duties don’t necessarily correspond. Nurses can be a higher rank than the doctors but have to take direction from the doctors in medical matters (like Major Hot Lips and Captain Hawkeye). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/8 "2009-05-17T12:05:38Z")
If it means anything, I recall an episode early in Harry Morgan’s run (probably his first) in which Radar described Potter’s recent record as having been two years of purely administrative work. Sounds to me like a longtime veteran easing toward retirement who gets tapped to run a MASH as his final duty. Compared to other elements in the show, not implausible at all. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/9 "2009-05-17T15:17:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > If it means anything, I recall an episode early in Harry Morgan’s run (probably his first) in which Radar described Potter’s recent record as having been two years of purely administrative work. Sounds to me like a longtime veteran easing toward retirement who gets tapped to run a MASH as his final duty. The sixth season episode “Potter’s Retirement” has lines that bear this out. Gen. Kent says something about Potter having a few months until retirement. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/10 "2009-05-17T15:36:12Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > But for the M_A_S\*H tv series, the Col. Potter character was already a veteran of two wars (WWI and WWII) Since that would have made him at least a 31 year veteran of the army the writers/producers whoever may have thought it was best to make him a full colonel. Plus, the producers made Potter a Regular Army officer, while Blake had been a reservist. ---
**Author:** ![Allecher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@Allecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Allecher)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/11 "2009-05-17T17:02:11Z")
The thing I never understood is why Hawkeye, Trapper and BJ were captains but Winchester and Burns were majors. I thought perhaps folks who joined voluntarily got the higher rank but that would have been unlikely for Winchester. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/12 "2009-05-17T17:39:47Z")
> [@Allecher](#): > > The thing I never understood is why Hawkeye, Trapper and BJ were captains but Winchester and Burns were majors. I thought perhaps folks who joined voluntarily got the higher rank but that would have been unlikely for Winchester. I believe Winchester did sign up intentionally(so to speak), with the idea being that he would get a job in a cushy, government hospital in Tokyo or Seoul. He gets sent to MASH 4077 by a general/colonel who owes him money. So in the show, those who joined got a higher rank, which is also why Frank Burns gets a higher rank. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/13 "2009-05-17T18:00:49Z")
> [@Allecher](#): > > The thing I never understood is why Hawkeye, Trapper and BJ were captains but Winchester and Burns were majors. I thought perhaps folks who joined voluntarily got the higher rank but that would have been unlikely for Winchester. My uncle joined voluntarily for Korea because he knew his draft number was about to be called up, and so he wanted to choose the Navy rather than take a chance at being a grunt. Could be Winchester got wind of his impending draft notice and joined to avoid actually getting drafted. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/14 "2009-05-17T18:03:18Z")
Burns and Winchester were Majors because the premise required that the foil outrank the protagonists. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/15 "2009-05-17T18:59:34Z")
Well, that might have been the case for Winchester. You’d have to ask Mr. Hornberger if he intended that to be the case for Frank. I suspect not, as Major Burns did not play a particularly large role in the book. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/16 "2009-05-17T19:10:34Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Burns and Winchester were Majors because the premise required that the foil outrank the protagonists. Simple as that. That was very helpful. Thanks. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/17 "2009-05-17T20:10:52Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Well, that might have been the case for Winchester. You’d have to ask Mr. Hornberger if he intended that to be the case for Frank. > > I suspect not, as Major Burns did not play a particularly large role in the book. The movie and TV versions of Frank Burns combined the character with Maj. Hobson from the novel. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/18 "2009-05-17T20:19:15Z")
Wasn’t Burns regular army anyway? ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/19 "2009-05-17T23:27:27Z")
I worked in an Air Force hospital in the Viet Nam era. The administrator was a Brigadier General or one star general, one step above Colonel or bird colonel. He was promoted the year I started and had been running the hospital for about 5 years. He was the highest rank in the hospital, but not on the base. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732/20 "2009-05-18T06:40:42Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Wasn’t Burns regular army anyway? Nope, he had a practice back in Indiana. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-a-s-h-would-a-full-colonel-really-run-a-hospital/496732.md?page=2)