# M:tG-- Threshold and death order **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 19, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-tg-threshold-and-death-order/506986 "2009-08-19T19:28:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-tg-threshold-and-death-order/506986/41 "2009-08-31T22:31:27Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > \ There ARE times when damage dealt from a single source in a single resolution DOES have an order. It’s used to determine things like what legal options do we have for handling the effect from a [Harm’s Way](http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=190166), which mentions the “Next 2 damage”. If it all occurs at once then it doesn’t matter but if an event does damage in two or more batches, such as [Branching Bolt](http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=177602) targeting both a flying creature and a non-flying creature, you can only use the Harm’s Way to prevent/redirect damage from the damage event created first by the card(effectively to protect a flyer). > > How do you tell if a card has more than one damage event or just one? The number of verbs in the effect. For example Pestilence only has the one verb, thus only one event and Harm’s Way can be used to prevent any individual point of damage because they’re coming all at once, so they’re all technically the “next” point. But Branching Bolt has two verbs, thus when it’s resolving they are done in batches. Not batches to the point where a player gets priority or state based effects are checked, but batches to the point where redirection and prevention effects which care about damage order can function.\ > > Man, how did this drool get all over my shirt? > > Enjoy, > Steven I don’t _think_ this is correct. I poked around in Comp Rules (in case this changed recently and I was unaware of it), but I don’t see anything to support this. Point me to a section, would you? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-tg-threshold-and-death-order/506986/42 "2009-08-31T23:14:52Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > I don’t _think_ this is correct. I poked around in Comp Rules (in case this changed recently and I was unaware of it), but I don’t see anything to support this. Point me to a section, would you? I’ll PM you some details once I get home and have access to my MTG-Rules-L archives, unless someone else posts and says they think it would be of general interest. I tend to leave these kind of super specialized discussions in small circles because the game is complicated enough for most players without getting into this level of detail. In a nutshell the genesis of this ruling is from cards like Balance, Pox, the Commands cycle, etc. If a card has multiple sets of instructions for one effect, you follow the instructions in the order they’re printed on the card. That’s why for Balance you equalize Lands-\>Cards-\>Creatures. While technically it’s one event from a player’s PoV, there is a pseudo time order involved. Cards which care about time order can see this and use it. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-tg-threshold-and-death-order/506986/43 "2009-09-01T00:13:35Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > I’ll PM you some details once I get home and have access to my MTG-Rules-L archives, unless someone else posts and says they think it would be of general interest. I tend to leave these kind of super specialized discussions in small circles because the game is complicated enough for most players without getting into this level of detail. In a nutshell the genesis of this ruling is from cards like Balance, Pox, the Commands cycle, etc. If a card has multiple sets of instructions for one effect, you follow the instructions in the order they’re printed on the card. That’s why for Balance you equalize Lands-\>Cards-\>Creatures. While technically it’s one event from a player’s PoV, there is a pseudo time order involved. Cards which care about time order can see this and use it. > > Enjoy, > Steven (yeah, this is deep-level rules stuff, but ignorance is ignorance! 🙂 ) I checked in #mtgjudge, and Lee Sharpe confirms that you are correct. I don’t think MTGO has this implemented correctly. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-tg-threshold-and-death-order/506986/44 "2009-09-01T02:42:10Z")
MTGO has all sorts of stuff implemented incorrectly. There’s a guy in my playgroup who mostly plays on MTGO and he’s a good player who knows the rules pretty well, but we butt heads sometimes over differences between how MTGO works and how M:tG works. 🙂 Remember Painter’s Servant? He said online it makes all your lands produce whatever color of mana you chose when it came into play. That’s pretty crazy stuff right there. Enjoy, Steven [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/m-tg-threshold-and-death-order/506986.md?page=2)