# Mac computers - is it mostly just image and status? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2010, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748 "2010-02-20T07:05:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/21 "2010-02-20T18:28:03Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > that Apple still needs an anti-virus and anti-malware program? This is sort of like the debate about universal health care: it depends on how much you care about the well being of others. The number of malware exploits in the wild for the Mac is so close to zero as to make no difference: most Mac users will never encounter anything more malicious than a pop-under ad in their browser, even if they engage in online activities that would be frankly reckless on Windows. The OS itself has protection built in against a small number of exploits, but even those posed relatively little threat. I’ve been using Macs almost since their inception: the only Mac virus I have ever seen is one I downloaded deliberately because it was a novelty…and that was back in the mid 90’s, and could not spread without explicitly double-clicking on it. That said, Macs can be a clear transmission vector for Windows malware; particularly attachments and links that won’t harm the Mac but can be forwarded to unwitting Windows users. Personally, I don’t worry about it–Windows boxes generally either have their own protection or are already severely compromised–but some folks nicer about it than I am do. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/22 "2010-02-20T19:25:26Z")
Not all of it, no. They’re undoubtably a better quality than most PCs, plus the whole virus issue. I have an Acer laptop and work with PCs. My boyfriend has a Mac desktop and laptop (he’s been a Mac user since before they made their comeback, and he uses them for film editing which they are supposed to be particularily good for). Contrasting the two - PCs fucking suck. However, I chose to get one because the price and graphics card were right, and I could more easily play games on it. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/23 "2010-02-20T20:35:08Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > (Windows can take several minutes to do a Search.) Huh? Search is pretty much instantaneous on Windows XP using the desk toolbar though the original search engine was slower. Windows 7 has a very good and quick search engine accessible through a single click or the windows button. I don’t own a Mac but I did use one fairly extensively at work some years back. I liked some of it, particularly iLife but overall I didn’t find it a superior experience to Windows. I have kept an eye on the later updates and tried out Macs in the store occasionally but again I have seen little to make me switch. The lower prices, greater hardware choice and my existing software make Windows a pretty easy choice for me. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/24 "2010-02-20T20:41:39Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Huh? Search is pretty much instantaneous on Windows XP using the desk toolbar though the original search engine was slower. Using XP at work. When I use the Search, it’s the one where you go to Start first. I search ‘My Computer’, and it takes forever to find anything (or not find it). My computer is so slow, I downloaded [_Arkansas Traveler_](http://www.nonstick.com/sounds/Beaky_Buzzard/ltbk_015.mp3) onto my desktop. Of course, it loads too slow for me to peevishly play it while I’m waiting for something to open; and whenever I want to change windows, Windows says, ‘Nuh-UH! I’M going to go back to _this_ window! I don’t care where you want to go, or what you’re in the process of typing!’ (something that never happens on my Mac). ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/25 "2010-02-20T20:52:22Z")
I make my living as a software developer and have bounced back and forth between Macs and PCs for the last 20+ years - both at work and at home. I have one of each at the moment. To echo some of the comments above, I have found: - PCs are more fun to build and ‘fiddle’ with - Mac laptops, when configured equally with a Dell or HP are very close in price - only slight more expensive for a Mac. - The more expensive perception is because there are no ‘bargain basement’ Macs. - Macs are clearly less hassle when it comes to virus/malware issues. - Windows 7 is _very_ good and the new ‘Security Essentials’ (free) is a good addition which eliminates the hassles of Norton or other antivirus software. Having spent what feels like years of my life being the support guy for friends and family, many of them have shifted (without prompting) to Macs over the last few years - and my ‘support call’ volume has gone down. Anecdotal evidence that Macs may indeed ‘just work’ for a lot of folks. I think that the success of the iPod and iPhone have nudged people in the direction. In closing, I have to say that the best Windows laptop I have ever used is my MacBook when booted into Windows… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/26 "2010-02-20T21:54:43Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > That being said, mac users can be unbelievably condescending about computers. The mac vs, pc commercials are positively insulting. I also find the commercials condescending because Mac’s are not in the same price-point market as PC’s. It’s like comparing a $60,000 Corvette with a $30,000 Mustang. Jeese Louise I hope a Mac does SOMETHING for the extra money. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/27 "2010-02-20T22:06:11Z")
I’m really not sure that I buy the idea that Mac computers only seem more expensive because they do not offer super-low-end machines. Go to the [Apple Store](http://store.apple.com/us) and [Dell’s laptop offers](http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/laptop_great_deals?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&redirect=1) and configure things - how am I suppose to make a Mac computer with about the same specs as a Dell computer not cost more? Maybe I’m not seeing the right Mac offers? One might object by saying that I linked to a site with special offers by Dell. But Dell is perennially giving “special offers”, so they’re not really special offers, they’re just a way of expressing their low prices. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/28 "2010-02-20T22:12:58Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > Windows 7 and OSX are the same. No, not really. Windows 7 is still bogged in the same old Windows rubrics of things like clicking “Start” to do anything including Stop. (i.e. Shut down the computer.) > [@](#): > > Both are stable. Both are secure. So long as you have decent anti-virus/anti-malware/anti-popup software on the Windows machine. For most uses, they’re _similar_ but not the same. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/29 "2010-02-20T22:23:50Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > If you compare a Macbook to a consumer machine that’s on sale at Best Buy for $399, the Macbook looks overpriced until six months down the road when your cheap laptop is dead. Then I can go buy a second 399$ laptop and still have spent less the I would’ve on the Macbook. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/30 "2010-02-20T22:31:00Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > For the past five years I liked Macs because ‘they just work’. But in the last couple of months I’ve been disappointed. Apple released an update to Safari, and now I get the Mac version of the BSOD (the ‘beach ball’) about half the time I try to watch YouTube. Apple seems disinclined to fix the bug. I’m tempted to make a ‘Mac vs. PC’ commercial where Mac Guy freezes on YouTube while PC Guy laughs at him. :mad: I have to be very careful not to click on a YouTube link, lest I have to do a hard-restart, and only open YouTube links in Firefox. But I find Firefox not as easy to use as Safari. Just go to [http://www.youtube.com/html5](http://www.youtube.com/html5) and change youtube to play movies with an HTML5 player instead of the buggy Flash player that causes the beach ball and your problems will be solved. A lot of problems people have with either Macs or Windows are actually easy to fix. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/31 "2010-02-20T22:35:32Z")
Trying it out. Nevertheless, Apple’s reputation has been dinged by releasing an update that doesn’t work with YouTube settings most people use (I’d never heard of HTML5), and not doing squat to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/32 "2010-02-20T23:21:27Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > What _are_ these things? 😉 Good question. The Norton antivirus is a program that is very hard to uninstall, that keeps preventing your PC from behaving normally, or interrupting your work to try to advertise things at you, or trying to scam you into sending somebody money. Supposedly its purpose is to keep viruses from preventing your PC from behaving normally, or interrupting your work to try to advertise things at you, or trying to scam you into sending somebody money. It is a product whose business model depends on malicious programmers. Windows Genuine Advantage is aimed at foiling people who wish they were using Microsoft Windows. Apparently it can’t find anybody like that to foil, so it is working on people like me instead. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/33 "2010-02-20T23:35:37Z")
It was the whole virus issue that pushed me over the edge into buying a Mac. I’d been building my own PCs for quite a while and every year I would metaphorically steam-clean them to get rid of malware. One day I got one I couldn’t get rid of, and my friend was able to remove it, but the PC was unstable from then on. Eventually it died. I’d had enough of bogging my system down with scanners and what not. This was also around the time that Vista was introduced as well, and everyone was talking about the evils of User Access Control (or whatever it stood for). So I gritted my teeth for four months usomng borrowed computers, saved up, and bought a Mac. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/34 "2010-02-20T23:44:32Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Windows 7 is still bogged in the same old Windows rubrics of things like clicking “Start” to do anything :smack: Could you at least familiarize yourself with the thing you’re criticizing? ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/35 "2010-02-20T23:53:58Z")
With Windows 7 and Google Chrome many of the malware/virus criticisms of old are pretty much gone. I can understand the hardware quality argument to some extent, but for the vast majority of people its overkill. I have netbooks that have lasted as long as anything else. To me many of the arguments here seem to be more ones that might have had more validity 5 or even 10 years ago than they really do now. Maybe its less a image thing and more about conservatism? Otara ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/36 "2010-02-20T23:57:31Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > So here’s my question: is Mac basically all about image and status? If you have to ask then you already know the answer. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/37 "2010-02-21T00:04:21Z")
I think the MacOS is a better designed OS. I’d be running a Hackintosh at home if there weren’t stability issues on my hardware. I do think Apple trades on the fact that their customers are douchbags, but I don’t think they all are. But those ads: especially once they stopped being true. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/38 "2010-02-21T00:09:07Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > I’m really not sure that I buy the idea that Mac computers only seem more expensive because they do not offer super-low-end machines. Go to the [Apple Store](http://store.apple.com/us) and [Dell’s laptop offers](http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/laptop_great_deals?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&redirect=1) and configure things - how am I suppose to make a Mac computer with about the same specs as a Dell computer not cost more? Maybe I’m not seeing the right Mac offers? > > One might object by saying that I linked to a site with special offers by Dell. But Dell is perennially giving “special offers”, so they’re not really special offers, they’re just a way of expressing their low prices. Mac special offers are not all that common - but I did see a Macbook deal this week for $150 off. I did not do a very good job of describing the price differential - which is often hard to determine from a casual look at the websites. When I try to configure the $399 Inspiron 13 to be like my $999 white MacBook - the Dell ends up at $799 - but the Mac has much better video than the integrated Intel graphics in the Inspiron. If the Inspiron 13 offered a video upgrade (like the 15 inch model), the difference would be just $100. ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/39 "2010-02-21T00:22:23Z")
Does anybody else feel a bit strange when it’s always ‘Mac vs PC’? I was under the impression that Macs generally _were_ PC’s. I think there’s a lot of image value to most of Apple’s products, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. I’ve never bought an Apple product though, since I’ve always found something better for cheaper. Never had a virus on Windows either, though I have had to clean up other people’s messes. Windows lets me play games. That’s the sole reason why I’d never even consider Mac OS X. It doesn’t offer me anything particularly useful. A friend tried to make a big thing about it’s voice recognition the other day, but when I tested it, it seemed to be just as useless as Vista’s. I also see them as over priced, since I generally build my own PC’s. If I could buy the OS separately and install it on my own machine, then I might consider dual booting, but as it stands, I’d rather have control over my insides, and plan for the future upgrades to keep the costs down in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748/40 "2010-02-21T00:24:25Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I think the MacOS is a better designed OS. I’m sorry; don’t you mean UNIX? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-computers-is-it-mostly-just-image-and-status/529748.md?page=3)