BTW, how much memory do these new macs come with? Or atleast the old ones?
Thanx for the correction 
True enough. I’m not saying that ONLY computer savvy people should invest on PC’s. What I AM saying is that I can see the appeal of Macs to people not so computer literate. I realize those not so savvy also purchase PC’s, but that wasn’t my point.
I realize that. But they can do that for less money buying a PC, and most people want to save money dontchaknow…
Sweet. Wether Mac or PC, computer savvy people are few and far between.
These are serious endevours, I agree. I use my PC for prgramming Java and back end web development. But I don’t need a AMD 3000 533 MHZ FSB and a Geforce 4 FX 5900 to do that, or to design web pages
As I said, unless your work specifically requires a high end machine I can see you getting and enjoying your Mac.
I’m sorry, but I’d wager my PC will put your Mac to shame any day of the week when it comes to graphics performance, I did mentione I’m a gamer, no?
I never said gaming was serious. I said if you are a ‘serious gamer’ then PC is what you want to be looking at. NOT a Mac.
Are we getting a little miffed here, or am I reading too much into your choice of words?
I never said “All PC users like to build their own machines”. But it IS nice to have that option if you like doing that and at the same time you like saving money.
I bought my current system for 1/2 of what it would have cost me had I payed retail just by building it myself. Saved me over a thousand dollars.
I realize this is not for everyone. But since there are so many hardware manufacturers, you can get new/replacement parts rather cheap for a PC. This is a plus IMHO.
I would suggest you give it a shot. IT’s rather fun and there is something there for everyone, wether RPG, Action/Adventure, puzzle, whatever.
Not all computer users like to game, I know, and for them, I can also see the appeal for a Mac.
Bottom line: Why pay more? A PC (if bought from a reputable vendor or if built by a savvy user) will be just as reliable (Windows XP only, I give Mac’s OS the props it deserves), as a Mac. Except it’ll do more (more powerful), It provides more software options to choose from, and it is less expensive.
True, the appeal of Macs is for people that do not want to jump through hoops and “troubleshoot” endlessly (i.e., “less savvy”) but that is a good thing. It’s a good thing that there is a computer out there that will work for the likes of Yo Yo Ma and many other “less savvy” people who just want to get their work done, not necessarily be “savvy.”
I’m as poor as the next person, but I realize that you get what you pay for. Not having to troubleshoot as much and waste time tearing out my hair trying to get something to work as much is worth it to me, dontchaknow…
And you don’t need OS X, either. But OS X is a much nicer “enviroment” to work in, and for some of us, the nicer “environment” makes all the difference.
We do the work, we decide what environment works best for us. And, believe it or not, some of us prefer an “environment” that may (I know this is stunning, but may) differ from your preference. One size does not fit all.
Did I mention that I don’t care about gaming?
My G4 Mac is old (2001 model) so I am sure many a PC would beat it. But, with Photoshop (I use a lot of Photoshop) my Mac competed quite favorably to my PC. Even though the PC’s CPU was much faster. The secret is the Altivec engine, a Mac-only plug in. Only works on G4s. Very dandy.
Besides, do you think that your current PC would “put to shame” the new tricked out G5s in Photoshop? Because Photoshop is where it’s at for me. Don’t care about gaming–if your PC beats a G5 in gaming, more power to it. But with Photoshop? You think it will put a G5 to shame? Seriously? Maybe the latest desktop PC will be “neck and neck” (at best) with the G5, but I see no evidence that it will put it “to shame.”
And did I disagree with you?
The reason I bring up the idea of “gaming” not being serious is that many Mac-bashers (not you specifically, but many) bring up gaming as if that is some sort of “proof” that you can get “real” work done on a PC as opposed to a Mac. But since gaming isn’t “real work” anything, but just a wonderfully enjoyable hobby, it doesn’t really follow.
I’m not miffed; I truly do not care. Just like I truly do not care about taking apart my car’s engine and putting it together again. That’s why God invented mechanics.
To a certain extent, Mac users (not me, obviously, but some) build their own Macs. Or at least trick them out and upgrade them to the hilt. Macs use pretty standard parts. I have a friend who does this. He has a ball.
And you have a thousand-dollar-saving machine that will not run OS X, Final Cut Pro, iDVD, iMovie, and other apps (or OSes) that I prefer to be able to use. So what’s your point? Your cheaper PC won’t run the apps I want it to run. I want a computer that will run the apps I want it to run. See how that works?
Macs use a lot of the same parts. True, you have to get the motherboard through Apple, but hard drives, RAM, optical drives–a lot of them are cross-platform.
How do I put this nicely? I DON’T CARE. I tried games a while ago. I truly do not care. I cannot imagine a more energy-sucking waste of time. The only game I really like is Snood. Snood is an exception (and Solitaire). Both these are available for OS X. So I’m all set.
Let me make a suggestion to you: have you ever tried sewing your own clothes? I love to sew my own clothes, and you can save a shitload of money making your own. And they fit you just right, are just the style you want, and often you can use Designer patters. Sewing your own clothes is supercool.
Do you think that just because I enjoy sewing my own clothes (and save a LOT of money doing so) that everyone else should want to do it too? Because, you know, it saves you so much money. And it’s fun–truly it is! Well, I think it is, and that’s all that counts, isn’t it? So you are going to rush out and get a Butterick pattern and start sewin’, aren’t you? Huh? 
Do you sew your own clothes? And if not, why do you waste your money buying storebought clothing! It’s so expensive and a sewing is so fun!
I don’t know about that. I like my XP machine fine (it’s new, XP Pro, a very nice ASUS Deluxe motherboard, 1 GB RAM, etc. etc.) but XP is simply not as stable or as nice as OS X. I work with both these systems, side by side (literally–I have a KVM switch) daily. I see the difference.
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE between these two OSes. I see the differences every day. My PC is blazingly fast, and I do love it, for its strengths. But I cannot wait to get my mitts on a G5. And I have seen the previews of Panther, the new OS X. XP has nothin’ on it.
I should also add, that the appeal for Mac is for the less “savvy” people, and also for the creative people–you know, like the people working on TV shows, movies, etc. etc. I notice a lot of OS X screenshots in TV shows and ads. (24, anyone?) That’s because the people behind the scenes, the people doing this work, are all Mac people. And there’s a reason for that.
Mac users get the hottest babes.
I’m just sayin’ is all…
No, it’s because Apple have a huge marketing budget, a large part of which is set aside for product placement. The graphic designers, CGI artists and web developers associated with a movie who use Macs don’t have set design input, that’s the set designer’s job. Who probably doesn’t use a Mac or have the same (well founded) bias you and I have.
No offense, but putting screenshots of your OS in TV shows is pretty poor marketing. Only mac users, or people familiar with the mac platform, will catch them.
The only apple logo on a standard X desktop is the tiny little one in the upper left corner.
I have a Honda Accord and I use a Mac. I’m not big on maintenance.
That said, one thing that disappoints me about OS X is that, while more powerful and flexible than 9 was, it introduces the ideas of unintelligible and hidden files that can wreak havoc with your computer if you move/delete them. And it’s so hard to delete programs now - I miss just throwing out the application folder and the file from the preferences. I lost the CD for Norton AntiVirus, and since I installed a clean OS, it prompts me every startup to reinstall it because of missing files. I have no idea where to find them - searching for “Norton” and deleting everything doesn’t help. I miss simplicity.
Yosemite Babe:
I don’t know what your taking my opinion as an attack on the Mac.
I am NOT saying that everyone who chooses a PC has to build it from the ground up, or that they have to use it as I do.
I’m just laying down some good points on PC’s. Is there no room for a differing opinion?
With a PC you get:
wider choice of hardware, wider choice of software (gaming or otherwise), and greater compatability with both.
You also get a powerhouse of a computer. Not that you’ll notice the difference while working with a word processor, but other, more demanding applications will perform better.
And finally, it’s cheaper. Way cheaper.
I also don’t know where your hatred for PC’s comes from. My girlfriend (definatley not computer savvy) uses my comp just fine, no complaints so far.
P.S: I’mg uessing you’re a girl by your SN. No wonder you hate gaming. I’ve yet to meet a girl who was into games. As for it being a waste of time: having fun is a great way to reduce stress and be happy. I do do other things beside playing games, as I’m sure most gamers do.
Have you gone into system preferences and looked in the login items panel?
Probably you have a point to an extent, but do you believe that every screenshot and every Mac you see placed on TV more movies is bought and paid for? Because I don’t believe that. I think that sometimes a TV or movie needs to show computers, and since some of their crew is already “Mac biased”, and since the Macs are more attractive (and they are) than PCs, that’s what they use.
I’ve also seen many, many all-Mac or 50/50 Mac/PC screenshots in computer books (specifically graphics how-to books like for Photoshop). In fact, I am embarassed to say how many Photoshop books I own, and I think I’ve only got one or two that has PC-only screenshots. All the others are all-Mac or a mix. Certainly no one paid to the author to put those screenshots in there, it was the author’s preference. And many times the authors of Photoshop books (or the publishers, perhaps) are Mac users or “Mac-friendly.”
Didn’t adobe start writing software for the mac? Later on they included PC support for their software. Could explain what your observation.
I swear by Photshop and Illustrator. Great products.
As for the ads, it’s true. Apple owns the industry in this respect. This is because they have to compete with the PC.
PC sales are exponentially larger than Mac sales.
Aha! Thank you. Still, why is there a “login items” control panel AND a “startup items” folder? I loved my Mac for the fact that the files I saw were all that was there - no confusing hidden files, no .dll screwups, no registry crap. OS X’s implementation of UNIX seems to have thrown that out the window (so to speak).
Wait. Let’s see here:
And you so graciously concede that Macs are probably not for “retarded” people.
Oh no, no negativaty, no “attacks” there… :rolleyes:
No, you’re not. But you are saying that being able to build it from the ground up is one if its perks. And since some of us don’t give a shit about that particular perk, that means that particular perk might as well not exist for us, doesn’t it?
Of course there is. But you go beyond “differing opinion”–you are insulting. But I do acknowledge that you dodged a bullet by not quite comparing Mac users to “retarded people.”
And you don’t get to use OS X, Final Cut Pro, or any of the other apps I mentioned, but you refuse to acknowledge.
And you think the G5 won’t be a “pwerhouse” computer?
And you think the G5 won’t perform very well? Especially when running Photoshop?
A cheaper computer that does not run the apps I want it to run is not that much of a bargain.
I’d like you to copy and paste examples of my “hatred”: Oh wait, could it be this quote?
Yep, that’s just oozing hatred.
Or what about this?
Yep, simmering with hatred.
Oh wait, what about this one?
While I obviously am not 100% enamoured with my PC, I cannot fathom where you got the idea that I hate them. I really like my lovely PC. I paid good money for it. I had the shop add all sorts of nifty parts. I really like it, for what it is. But it can’t run OS X, and I much prefer OS X. (Though, I concede, XP is the first Windows OS that is fairly decent.)
Oh, I get around on my PC relatively well. But it’s a PC, and I know what it’s like to do some of the same tasks on a Mac. And I see this difference every day, as I mentioned before.
Tell me–do you use a PC and Mac, side-by-side, daily? If not, do you think there is a remote chance that maybe someone who does use them side-by-side daily might have a few insights that you do not?
I am absolutely not trashing gamers or gaming. Just because I think it is a mind-sucking waste of time does not mean that everyone will agree with me. Just like not everyone will want to start sewing their clothes, even though I think it’s pretty nifty.
All I’m saying is that if gaming is of no importance to someone, then why tout a computer’s ability to game as some sort of major perk? That’s the same as touting how fabulously Macs run Photoshop to someone who will never, ever run Photoshop. It will mean diddley to them.
Yosemite babe:
Wow, Yeah I suppose I did say some things that wouldn’t sound very amicable on the first post. I certainly did not mean them in a serious way however.
It’s hard to write something in such a way as for the reader to know I’m not being serious.
But common “Mac, Yuck!”? You thought I was being serious?
Also, I keep hearing about how Mac’s OS is “nicer”. What exactly does that mean? How is it superior to windows xp?
I really want to know, I’m not being sarcastic, I’m not fmailiar with the latest version of the OS.
As for applications, you do realize that there are OTHER applications for windows that do the same on PC, right? Save for iTunes, I beleive (it’s some sort of pay to hear music program no?).
Actually I think iTunes or something similar is coming to PC.
And this is what I mean wiht piece of mind. The PC market is so much larger that the Mac’s, that appliactions are very unlikely to remain on the Mac platform alone. They will almost certainly support windows soon enough, or (most likely) start out for PC’s, and migrate later to Macs (sometimes).
As for the startup items and login items both being in there, I have no idea. One of them needs to go away. Certainly far better than the Windows lets-hide-startup-apps-in-the-registry mess by far though, but still entirely unnessecary.
As for X creating problems, so far I’ve yet to have any. I move my apps around, drop them in the trash (then trash the preferences) and nothing breaks. Actually, I’ve been quite impressed. I expected far worse when I found out X would be UNIX based, but I’ve found I can use it the same way I used to use 9 without any hassle. The only area where the file system gets more confusing, is in the fact that there are a few areas where stuff can hide. Preferences, for instance, while almost always in the Library folder in the users home folder, will sometimes end up in the system library folder.
There is still no registry, and while there is a lot of UNIX stuff hidden underneath, it is just that, hidden. The only way to get to it is through the terminal anyways, and there really is no need whatsoever to do so.
In my case, once I got used to the highly polished interface, increased stability, and the overall thoughtfulness of the whole package, I found myself unable to use OS 9 again. 9 was a nice OS, but after no longer having to deal with memory allocation, relatively frequent reboots, and 9’s poor multitasking, I just can’t go back. I’ve been spoiled.
One of the nice things with X, is you can just put the computer to sleep instead of shutting it down, and upon wakeup the computer is instantly useable, no wait like with 9. I never shut down my computers anymore, because the OS is so rock stable that I don’t have to, and sleep works so well.
Sigh.
Buy a tool that does what you need it to do. You wouldn’t buy a table saw for hammering nails and you wouldn’t buy a hammer for cutting wood.
If you want to make your own DVDs and edit film, buy a Mac.
If you want to play awesome video games, buy a PC. (And by the way, my wife loves PC games.)
If you want an ultra-stable computer, buy a Mac.
If you want a computer with a large software library, buy a PC.
If you want to do graphic design, buy a Mac.
If you want to do business consulting work for a lot of clients, buy a PC.
This ain’t a holy war. Or it shouldn’t be.
Technically, I am comfortable using either one. I have never owned a mac, just because most of the software I use is not available for that system right now.
But whoever says that macs run smoother and don’t have as many problems as PCs gets a complimentary tour of my boss’s imac moments before I finally bash the thing to pieces with my own head.
Rick Jay:
Platform selection is not as black and white as you portray them.
I can and do make and edit DVD’s on my PC. Although I do back end programming, I do get involved with the graphics design aspect of web design, and I use a PC for that too.
There is no one thing that a Mac can do, that a PC cannot do.