# Mac, Windows, Linux... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 28, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873 "2009-09-28T18:10:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Dr.Love](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Dr.Love](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Love)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/121 "2009-09-30T05:46:59Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Funny, but you’ve kind of missed my point, especially by taking what I said out of context. Here’s what I said: > > “So what if I save $1000 dollars on a Unix box? I have over 20 grand wrapped up in software, most of which probably doesn’t run on any Linux flavor.” > > Which means buying a Unix box does me no good, if can’t use all the software I’ve invested in over the last decade. So, I might save $1000, but I lose tons of software compatibility, coworker compatibility, my preferred OS, and gain a steep learning curve and myriad devils I don’t know. Yeh, um, no thanks. It’s not _always_ about money. > > And, that’s assuming I really could save that much money. I see your point, but how many people actually have 20K of software on their home PCs? Business people (generally) don’t argue on the internet about their choice of OS. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/122 "2009-09-30T05:47:52Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > Unless you own an iMac I’m not really sure what your story has to do with anything. I can literally open my computer case and hot swap in a hard drive and have it closed in less than 60 seconds, no power cycle necessary. Do I win a prize now? > > Despite 3 pages of Mac enthusiasm, nobody has been able to explain why OSX is incapable of doing some very basic OS functions needed for networked computers. > > Has anyone been able to answer why this great OS has a runaway ~/library folder that swells up like a black hole for no good reason? > > Can we talk about kernel panics? I’m not qualified to talk about the finer points of esoteric networking protocals, all I know is networking my Mac never seems to be a problem for me. Maybe someone more qualified can address your concerns. I’m not sure what bloat you’re talking about in the ~/library. I’ve never noticed this. Can you be more specific? Since I’ve been using OSX (since 10.1), I’ve experienced maybe 3 or 4 kernel panics. That’s going back what? 7 or 8 years? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/123 "2009-09-30T06:20:24Z")
> [@Dr.Love](#): > > I see your point, but how many people actually have 20K of software on their home PCs? Business people (generally) don’t argue on the internet about their choice of OS. Why do you think PCs are so popular in business then? Why do you think Macs are so popular in the creative industry? There’s a correlation. The software can be far more expensive, niche and copious. I just counted 16 major applications I use on a very regular basis which have major upgrades every year to 18 mos: PhotoShop CS4 Illustrator CS4 InDesign CS4 QuarkXpress 8 Flash CS4 Dreamweaver CS4 After Effects CS4 Cinema 4D Studio Bundle Zbrush Modo 401 Final Cut Pro RealFlow 4 Soundtrack Pro DVD Studio Pro Motion Microsoft Office The list goes on… Not to mention all of the 3rd party plugins that I use for my bread and butter apps. The cost is staggering. The learning and skill takes years to master, and all this has to run on a very robust system, and using every molecule of silicon you can throw at it. What’s great about Mac OSX are all of its Core technologies that make working with media and animation fluid and seamless. Apple understands who their users are, and they prioritize such technologies right down into the core of the system itself. It really makes a _huge_ difference. All that being said, these under-the-hood technologies mean great things for the average, run-of-the-mill user too. On top of that, since Apple’s software and hardware are made by the same company, all their products seamlessly work together by design, from the bottom up. For someone who’s putting together a rig, that’s a really good thing. Macs just see each other on a network transparently. They share files, and screens as if there are no borders. They may cost a little more, but I really believe you’re getting what you pay for here. Certain folks misinterpret Mac users as snobbery, and I’m sure there are plenty who are guilty of it. But I just don’t think those folks understand what guys like me are up against when it comes to securing and maintaining all the hardware and software to keep what we do as efficient and painless as possible. Right now, I’m rendering a CG 720p HD scene in Cinema 4D that’s, so far, taken 18 hours to render, and it’s only rendered 34 frames out of 50. This is on my 8-core Mac. If I were on a Core Duo, we’d be looking at probably over a week of render time. All my cores are topped out, and yet my Mac still let’s me work in Photoshop or keep modeling in C4D pretty smoothly. So, I have no complaints, and see no reason to switch to a PC. It’d be down right foolish… why would I? To save $500 on my next Mac purchase? Heh. Right. ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/124 "2009-09-30T06:37:59Z")
Your 8-core mac is running what? 2 Nehalems? So it stands to reason a single CPU PC Nehalem will take half the time to process the data. I don’t see how comparing a Core Duo to a dual processor quad core rig is reasonable. Of course, Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise & Ultimate also support dual processors, and you can swap to the latest processor when Intel releases it instead of waiting for Apple to certify it. Let us be clear that Macs do not cost “a little more.” 50-100% premium is not “a little.” ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/125 "2009-09-30T06:46:08Z")
Just curious, **cmyk** , is it still true that the most memory that you can address to [Final Cut Pro](http://support.apple.com/kb/TA27734?viewlocale=en_US) is 2.5GB? ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/126 "2009-09-30T11:44:00Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > Hum, let’s see. FAI? Nope, can’t do that. Run programs remotely over TCP? Woops, even Windows does this better, and even if you can get it to run you have to do it from another Mac since Apple doesn’t support OSX on non-Apple hardware. Finding a network drive after it’s fallen off the network? Time for a reboot… well it’s quicker, anyway. Hmph, that’s _funny_. IIRC Apple’s got full support for, oh, Apache, SSH, rsync, GCC…you log in and do an ls of the /dev directory and whaddaya know! It’s shows devices! Lets look at the /etc directory. Hey! It’s full of .conf files! Let’s cat out resolv.conf. Hmph, it looks an AWFUL lot like the resolv.conf on my Ubuntu box. Lets run ntop. Hey that’s there! How bout the better htop? Oh it’s NOT there. ‘sudo port install htop’ There it is! You CAN run stuff remotely, you CAN run popular Unix apps (Wireshark is a favorite). Sounds like you a)didn’t do a little more research or b) don’t like the tools Apple builds for enterprise management. Sounds like the musician is complaining about his instruments. Price. PricePrice PRice PRICE price price. Is a $120k Mercedes $100k better than a $20k economy car? They sure do sell a lotta Mercedes. I like my Mac because it can be a Mac. It can be a Windows Box _and_ it can be a Un_x. Without dual booting. Without repartitioning. The Un_x software compiles natively with macports and if I _have_ to, Windows is a VM away. The best I can do with a PC is run windows (or ubuntu) and emulate Linux (or windows) in a VM. I can’t run OSX. I’ve _run_ hackintosh systems and they’re everything I’ve come to expect from a partially supported orphan OS. Running system update is the equivalent of playing russian roulette. When it kernel panics and won’t reboot, you grab your patched and burnt disk and you reinstall. That’s not how I want to spend my time. Why do you think Apple continues to permit it? They’ve got more than enough lawyers. They let it continue because it lets folks see what OSX is like…and it’s buggy as hell. It’s not a threat. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/127 "2009-09-30T11:49:02Z")
(remove duplicate post - three hamsters saved --Rico) ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/128 "2009-09-30T12:04:39Z")
(Dupe reported to mods) The Hamsters are struggling. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/129 "2009-09-30T12:24:17Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > Your 8-core mac is running what? 2 Nehalems? So it stands to reason a single CPU PC Nehalem will take half the time to process the data. I don’t see how comparing a Core Duo to a dual processor quad core rig is reasonable. > > Of course, Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise & Ultimate also support dual processors, and you can swap to the latest processor when Intel releases it instead of waiting for Apple to certify it. > > Let us be clear that Macs do not cost “a little more.” 50-100% premium is not “a little.” What do you think a Nehalem is? It’s a quad core i7. (cite: [TGDaily – More than the news](http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/38818/135/)) That’s _eight_ cores in a Mac Pro, if you app can take it. And what kinda math are you using where ‘one’ takes half the time of two? Or is your fact-checking flawed? ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/130 "2009-09-30T13:32:26Z")
Someone expressed surprise at how many mac owners there are I have a theory: Minorities are usually more vocal and more motivated to be heard. Mac owners see this thread and think “I must register a vote!” Windows users see this thread and think “Meh” [sub]ETA: Posted from an iPod for irony.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/131 "2009-09-30T13:38:23Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Someone expressed surprise at how many mac owners there are > > I have a theory: Minorities are usually more vocal and more motivated to be heard. Mac owners see this thread and think “I must register a vote!” Windows users see this thread and think “Meh” > > [sub]ETA: Posted from an iPod for irony.[/sub] I’ve got a better theory. Mac users are more intelligent, and so are over-represented on the SD. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/132 "2009-09-30T14:02:21Z")
And we’re not welcome in all those ‘Vista Sucks’ threads on on Teh Intarwebs. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/133 "2009-09-30T14:11:15Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > Let us be clear that Macs do not cost “a little more.” 50-100% premium is not “a little.” I don’t think I pay 50-100% premium to get a Mac these days. I would _RATHER_ not pay a 50-100% premium to get a Mac. But if I do… ::shrug:: I know audiophiles who would pay a 10,000 % premium for an improvement in sound quality that’s only noticeable when they carefully pick out one track, scoot to the exact selection in that track, crank up the volume, tell everyone in the room to shut the fuck up for a moment, then play it over and over, alternating with the consumer-quality crapsystem for comparison and saying stuff like “Hear the difference? Right there! Hear how it wobbles on this one but it’s totally clear over here?” Don’t tell Apple this, but I’d pay a hell of a lot more than a 100% premium if the only alternative was to run a Windows PC\* instead. I’m not saying Windows sucks, but it’s not the environment I want to be in and I find the MacOS to be better, and it matters. - or a Linux / FreeBSD / someotherOS box not running MacOS. I want my Mac. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/134 "2009-09-30T14:27:30Z")
Since there’s no “I don’t really give a fuck what I use as long as it let’s me waste time on boards and catch up on my sitcoms while playing Sims” I went with Windows. It’s all I’ve ever had at home. ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/135 "2009-09-30T14:34:25Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > What do you think a Nehalem is? It’s a quad core i7. (cite: [TGDaily – More than the news](http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/38818/135/)) That’s _eight_ cores in a Mac Pro, if you app can take it. Um, yeah, the asking about dual Nehalems was rhetorical. For some reason you felt it fair to compare the processing time of an 8 core system against a 2 core system. That’s a pretty stupid comparison. Of course, you’re limited to 4 gigs of memory per application… > [@](#): > > **And what kinda math are you using where ‘one’ takes half the time of two?** Or is your fact-checking flawed? I am not sure if this is a whoosh or not. Bolding is mine. It must be that “new math” I keep hearing about ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/136 "2009-09-30T14:35:22Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I don’t think I pay 50-100% premium to get a Mac these days. I would _RATHER_ not pay a 50-100% premium to get a Mac. > > But if I do… ::shrug:: Yes, what so many people have a hard time understanding is that we’re not all dirt poor, penny-pinching misers. I use an iPod with my Sync system when a $10 USB stick would do just a fine. I pay to eat at the Argentinian restaurant when I could just go eat cheap bar food. I choose to drive a Lincoln where a Hyundai would do the same job. I send my laundry out rather than ask my wife to do it. I choose the $8 car wash instead of the $5 car wash. I choose to use Macs as my main desktop machines (plus, as I’ve said, my Linux and Windows boxes where logical) instead of the cheapest, P.O.S. Dell I can equip on their website. To cheapskates or poor people, every, single one of these decisions seems to make no logical sense. To people that have the money and are willing, though, there’s no reason not to get what you want rather than suffer with something lesser. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/137 "2009-09-30T14:41:59Z")
Most computer use is pretty mundane stuff, web browsing, e-mail, etc. If a web page comes up in 1 second on my PC and the same web page comes up in 1 second on your Mac, and we’re both looking at 24" widescreen LCD displays of similar quality, why should I pay $1000+ to get a Mac that does the same thing I paid $500 for? For that matter I don’t know why people pay $2000 for a top-of-the-line PC. It doesn’t pay to be on the cutting edge of technology. ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/138 "2009-09-30T14:48:19Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I’ve got a better theory. > Mac users are more intelligent, and so are over-represented on the SD. You misspelled pseudo-intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/139 "2009-09-30T14:56:56Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > You misspelled pseudo-intelligent. You just proved my theory! ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873/140 "2009-09-30T15:07:37Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > Your 8-core mac is running what? 2 Nehalems? So it stands to reason a single CPU PC Nehalem will take half the time to process the data. I don’t see how comparing a Core Duo to a dual processor quad core rig is reasonable. > > Of course, Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise & Ultimate also support dual processors, and you can swap to the latest processor when Intel releases it instead of waiting for Apple to certify it. > > Let us be clear that Macs do not cost “a little more.” 50-100% premium is not “a little.” I’m not even sure what the “premium” would _be_ for comparable hardware. Haven’t really looked into it. The problem is, I’d have to start over with the software, and in certain cases, the software doesn’t exist for non-Macs. In any case, it’s a worthwhile investment for me. It’s fantastic hardware and software. > [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > Just curious, **cmyk** , is it still true that the most memory that you can address to [Final Cut Pro](http://support.apple.com/kb/TA27734?viewlocale=en_US) is 2.5GB? Yes, any 32 bit software can only address up to 4 GBs of RAM, regardless of how much you have installed. FCP uses 1.5 GBs right off the top for its libraries, drivers and frameworks, leaving 2.5 GBs left over for allocation. Of course, my hardware is 64 bit, and so is my OS. But until all the apps are rewritten to take advantage of 64 bit, they’ll only ever be able to address 4 GBs of RAM. Luckily for me, the main app I use, and one that truly benefits from all that RAM is 64 bit (Cinema 4D). IIRC, Adobe’s next versions will be 64 bit, and I’m sure Apple’s own FCP won’t be far behind. Everything else that comes with the Mac is 64 bit, native. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mac-windows-linux/511873.md?page=8)