# Macabre Thought **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2006, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340 "2006-10-05T01:44:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/21 "2006-10-05T18:26:01Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso] Secondary Macabre Thought: that our SECDEF is using this urban conflict to impress upon our citizens the futility of armed insurrection. [/QUOTE] Pretty obvious to me. I’ve got a 12 ga Mossberg. The government has aircraft carriers and space shuttles. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/22 "2006-10-05T18:41:29Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] Pretty obvious to me. I’ve got a 12 ga Mossberg. The government has aircraft carriers and space shuttles. [/QUOTE] Yeah. You ought to see what a gunship helicopter with night vision and gatling guns can do to a group of armed citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/23 "2006-10-05T18:47:37Z")
We may have space shuttles, nuclear weapons, and other nifty gadgets, but none of those things have been able to squash the insurgency in Iraq, even though we’re presently throwing $2 billion a week at the problem. I’m afraid that we’re standing next to Tarkin on the Death Star when he says that this is the moment of our greatest triumph. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/24 "2006-10-05T18:48:41Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] Yeah. You ought to see what a gunship helicopter with night vision and gatling guns can do to a group of armed citizens. [/QUOTE] Arnold was [framed](http://imdb.com/title/tt0093894/) for that… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/25 "2006-10-05T18:50:44Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] I’m afraid that we’re standing next to Tarkin on the Death Star when he says that this is the moment of our greatest triumph. [/QUOTE] If they were willing to use a death star, there would be no insurgency. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/26 "2006-10-05T18:57:59Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] The government has aircraft carriers and space shuttles. [/QUOTE] Space Shuttles? 😃 What are they going to do, drop a big-ass frozen Deuce on the insurrection? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/27 "2006-10-05T19:06:31Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] Yeah. You ought to see what a gunship helicopter with night vision and gatling guns can do to a group of armed citizens. [/QUOTE] But that’s the point, isn’t it? We get to see it every goddamned day and it’s making us into pussies. Some people look at our dwindling Rights and point the finger at a branch of government. But I’ve interviewed dozens of men who think every time our military develops an IED countermeasure another domestic Predator gets its wings. To them, the balance of power is nonexistent and in this US you might as well wipe your ass with the Declaration of Independence. These are frightening times. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/28 "2006-10-05T19:08:29Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso] See, this is the kind of stuff you say that I really don’t get. If a man has a strategy or a goal, it is always best to surround that man with other men who share the same strategy or goal. I think of Secretary Rumsfeld as a sort of Don-Shula-type figure. He has assembled a team with an almost myopic mission. My Main Macabre Thought is that this war, this deadly deal, is a way of churning through the fat meat of our military. And then harden it with new, tougher volunteers. Secondary Macabre Thought: that our SECDEF is using this urban conflict to impress upon our citizens the futility of armed insurrection. [/QUOTE] I disagree. If you deliberately surround yourself with people who either share your vision or are just too enamored of getting their third or fourth star to disagree with anything you say, you cannot go around making statements that imply that you are following the recommendations (and have the support of) an objective non-partisan military. When you say “churn through the fat meat of our military” are you just talking about the generals or the military generally because this war is most certainly reducing the quality of our recruits and they seem to be taking pains to hold onto warm bodies longer than those warm bodies want to hang around. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/29 "2006-10-05T19:08:40Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] I am reminded of [Wilhelm II](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_II_of_Germany) who wanted to be called “Supreme Warlord”. [/QUOTE] Considering what I know of Wilhelm, that’s a good comparison in more ways than one. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/30 "2006-10-05T19:16:07Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Considering what I know of Wilhelm, that’s a good comparison in more ways than one. [/QUOTE] Okay, now I’m thinking of the “Mission Accomplished” speech where Bush flew onto the aircraft carrier, and Wilhelm encouraging his infantry to be thought of as the Huns as they boarded a train or ship. Now _that_ is damn scary. I can’t sleep at night because of you, Guin. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/31 "2006-10-05T19:24:03Z")
[QUOTE=col\_10022] If you deliberately surround yourself with people who either share your vision or are just too enamored of getting their third or fourth star to disagree with anything you say [/quote] This is tremendously insulting to the men and women who have spent their lives working for the honor of a single star, let alone multiples. You have an incomplete or missing understanding of the US Military. > [@](#): > > you cannot go around making statements that imply that you are following the recommendations (and have the support of) an objective non-partisan military. Again. Just because they’re mission-oriented does not negate their objectivity. > [@](#): > > When you say “churn through the fat meat of our military” are you just talking about the generals … No, I’m talking on all levels. It’s high season for house cleaning. And now every Ortiz, Dre, Dyke and Peckerwood are signing up in droves for our new model army. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/32 "2006-10-05T19:34:57Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso] And now every Ortiz, Dre, Dyke and Peckerwood are signing up in droves for our new model army. [/QUOTE] I know what the slurs “Dykes” and “Peckerwoods” are, but what are “Ortiz” and “Dre”? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/33 "2006-10-05T19:38:42Z")
“Peckerwood” is not a slur. It is an honorific, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/34 "2006-10-05T19:50:25Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] “Peckerwood” is not a slur. It is an honorific, thank you very much. [/QUOTE] I beg your pardon. I am from a rural Southern area and would take offense. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/35 "2006-10-05T20:46:40Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso] > [@col\_10022](#): > > If you deliberately surround yourself with people who either share your vision or are just too enamored of getting their third or fourth star to disagree with anything you say This is tremendously insulting to the men and women who have spent their lives working for the honor of a single star, let alone multiples. You have an incomplete or missing understanding of the US Military.Again. [/QUOTE] If it is then the insult comes from their fellow generals. Gen. Eaton raised the point of the senior officers being derelict on _Countdown_ and ascribed it to Rummy hand-picking senior generals by passing them through his sieve. And it was military officers who made exactly the same point in interviews with Woodward for his latest book _State of Denial_. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/36 "2006-10-05T20:59:48Z")
I believe the army can only take this for so long. I have no idea how long that is, but as has been mentioned recruitment standards have been progressively lowered so that targets can be hit. The same units keep rotating through Iraq with no apparent change in the situation they face when they return there. And now the casualty rate has increased abruptly. Despite all the hoopla about the “greatest generation” the AWOL rate among combat forces in WWII Europe was quite high. Higher than Koreaa, Vietnam or now, Iraq. Of course there was a large and familiar civilian population where you could hide in Europe. That’s not true in Iraq and I wonder how long those who keep being returned there can last. There is no let up. There is no place you can go into a nice cafe and have a beer while your unit is in the rear area. It looks to me like a pretty bleak outlook. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/37 "2006-10-05T21:04:29Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] _Countdown_ … _State of Denial_. [/QUOTE] Sorry if this seems rude, but those aren’t exactly sterling cites you’ve offered. Give me the word of General Bootsontheground and I’ll buy your side, otherwise it’s just rhetorical static. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/38 "2006-10-05T21:09:38Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso] Sorry if this seems rude, but those aren’t exactly sterling cites you’ve offered. Give me the word of General Bootsontheground and I’ll buy your side, otherwise it’s just rhetorical static. [/QUOTE] General {Boots On the Ground} Eaton, commander of the 1st Infantry Division in Ieaq made his statements on _Countrdown_ as I said. Did I write too fast? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/39 "2006-10-05T21:10:13Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] Despite all the hoopla about the “greatest generation” the AWOL rate among combat forces in WWII Europe was quite high. Higher than Koreaa, Vietnam or now, Iraq. [/QUOTE] Did Eddie Slovak have any effect on that? I’m surprised that the local population would hide American deserters. They were refusing to fight for them, after all. Unless you are talking about Germans… ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/40 "2006-10-05T21:11:07Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] I believe the army can only take this for so long. I have no idea how long that is, but as has been mentioned recruitment standards have been progressively lowered so that targets can be hit. [/QUOTE] What’s worse is that National Guard units are taking deep damage. Why, our Colorado Guard has to go elsewhere to prepare for deployment to Iraq, simply because they’re not properly outfitted in their home state! We are an analogous desert, an ideal training ground, yet our boys and girls are hamstrung by the Quartermaster. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340.md?page=3)