# Macabre Thought **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2006, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340 "2006-10-05T01:44:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/61 "2006-10-06T23:54:39Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso] Which brings us back to BINGO. I said I wanted opinions of Boots On The Ground, not Old Grey Geldings. My in-laws have a friend over for dinner occasionally, a retired General and Marine Aviator whose heyday was Campuchea, who also happens to be chock-full of opinion on the current situation. In reality, he’s just an armchair quarterback with a million-dollar pension; what he says doesn’t mean shit, but it’s a good yarn every once in a while. [/QUOTE] These are recently retired officers **with Iraq experience** , like Maj. Gen. Batiste, since you don’t like Eaton, also recently retired\*\* with Iraq experience.\*\* From my cite of _Countdown_ in a previous post. > [@](#): > > OLBERMANN: From the start of things there, the administration has insisted **only those who have been to Iraq** could truly know what it was like there. > > In our fourth story on the COUNTDOWN, some of them testified today, retired military (INAUDIBLE) **who served there** bluntly detailing the gross ongoing errors, laying most of them at the feet of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and the administration, the Senate Democratic Policy Committee hearing joined by one lone congressional Republican, showcasing the informed ire of those retired military officers. > > One of them, Major General Paul Eaton, will join us presently. > > It was not just about calling for Mr. Rumsfeld‘s resignation, it was about an administration not listening and not telling the truth. > > MAJ. GEN. JOHN BATISTE (RET.), U.S. ARMY: I believe that Secretary Rumsfeld and others in the administration did not tell the American people the truth, for fear of losing support for the war in Iraq. > > Secretary Rumsfeld and the administration are fighting a war in secret that threatens our democratic values. This needs to stop right now, today. > > Iraq didn‘t have to be the way it was. We created this insurgency. > > We let it grow. We let it develop. We let it blossom. > > COL. THOMAS HAMMIES (RET.), U.S. MARINE CORPS: The disconnect between our rhetoric and our actions is both astonishing and immoral. There was a total of 16 of them who appeared bbefore the panel of Democratic sentaors (and one Republican) ALL with Iraq experience. As you can see, one of them was even from **The Corps.** Maybe he didn’t get the same training you did. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/62 "2006-10-07T00:53:21Z")
Speaking of **The Corps** , this cite might be as enjoyable to you, **Cid** , as anything Old Grey Geldings’ say: [U.S. European Commander Confirms Quotes in Book](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/04/AR2006100401741.html) > [@](#): > > One of the highest-ranking generals in the U.S. military yesterday stood by views attributed to him in a controversial new book about the Bush administration’s handling of the war in Iraq but said it was important to understand the context in which those views were expressed. > > **Marine Gen. James L. Jones** , the U.S. commander for Europe, is quoted in “State of Denial,” by The Washington Post’s Bob Woodward, as believing that the war in Iraq is a “debacle” and that “The Joint Chiefs have been systematically emasculated by Rumsfeld.” As Marine commandant, the post he held before moving to Europe, **Jones was a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.** > > The book also quotes Jones as delivering a warning about working with Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld to Marine Gen. Peter Pace, who was about to become chairman of the Joint Chiefs. “You should not be the parrot on the secretary’s shoulder,” Jones reportedly told Pace. > > Jones’s confirmation of Woodward’s account is especially noteworthy because in the book, Pace denies that Jones made such remarks to him. **Also, Jones’s comments suggest that active-duty generals are beginning to criticize the defense secretary and the Iraq war with the harshness that several retired generals have used recently.** [QUOTE=Cid] There was this saying in the Corps: we need to get our shit in one bag. I believe we have only that choice now in Iraq. Get on board, or get the fuck out of the way. [/quote] Maybe you should e-mail your saying right-quick to Gen. “Boots On The Ground” James L. Jones. Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar must be rolling in his grave… ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/63 "2006-10-07T04:17:21Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Maybe you should e-mail your saying right-quick to Gen. “Boots On The Ground” James L. Jones. Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar must be rolling in his grave… [/QUOTE] I’m sorry but Jones doesn’t count. Pate is a Naval Academy man and Jones graduated Georgetown. Hmmph, must be ROTC and I’ll bet he doesn’t know a single verse of Ivan Skivinsky Skivar. In any case I find this interesting. Here we have active duty 4-stars publicly disagreeing over a mater of fact. Maybe Jones should have worn a wire. And the argument is over the way to deal with the Secretary of Defense. Unheard of. Jones must feel he can tolerate retirement for him to have told Woodward that. Ya gotta hand it to GW. He a uniter and not a divider. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/64 "2006-10-07T08:33:19Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso] Which brings us back to BINGO. I said I wanted opinions of Boots On The Ground, not Old Grey Geldings. My in-laws have a friend over for dinner occasionally, a retired General and Marine Aviator whose heyday was Campuchea, who also happens to be chock-full of opinion on the current situation. In reality, he’s just an armchair quarterback with a million-dollar pension; what he says doesn’t mean shit, but it’s a good yarn every once in a while. [/QUOTE] Well, how’s about what my best friend from high school said when he got back from his **third** tour of Iraq a few months ago? He’s a master sargent, been in the Marines since '88, and has seen duty in GW 1.0, Afghanistan, and GW 2.0, plus other hot spots around the world (his training is in NBC warfare). He _was_ planning on staying in the Corps until he hit the twenty year mark, then he got sent for his third tour of Iraq. The emails I got from him while he was over there all included words like “clusterfuck” and “fiasco.” I had dinner with him and his family when they were in town and he told me that he was getting out of the Marines because “it wasn’t worth it anymore.” The guy’s a devoted patriot, and all through high school all he could talk about was serving in the Marines, and now he wants out **bad.**. That good enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340/65 "2006-10-07T13:14:34Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] The guy’s a devoted patriot, and all through high school all he could talk about was serving in the Marines, and now he wants out **bad.**. That good enough for you? [/QUOTE] Nonsense, man. The guy’s obviously been brainwashed into a woolly-headed liberal traitor and you can’t believe a word he says on the subject. Hell, he probably watched a Michael Moore movie! And I’m sure he’s been gelded, has to’ve been to talk like that, huh? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macabre-thought/375340.md?page=3)