# Machetero and Diogenes the Cynic are used cum bags **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756 "2004-11-14T20:33:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/181 "2004-11-15T21:57:06Z")
Oh, and I’d have an absolute cut off of 14, regardless of the age difference. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/182 "2004-11-15T22:02:56Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > There’s nothing like having a daughter to make you acutely aware that male = pig. Because of course it’s impossible to raise a son so that he respects women and doesn’t think with his dick. You realize that by saying that, you’re condemning everyone else’s son, and calling everyone who has sons but no daughters unfit parents, right? And are you including yourself in the “male = pig” definition? Or did you magically become a saint as soon as your first daughter was born? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/183 "2004-11-15T22:05:04Z")
While I think you are overreacting to some of this, I do have to agree with you on this point: > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > And let’s not forget that fucking makes babies. If we don’t think a 15 year old is mature enough to vote, drive or drink, then why should she be allowed to parent a child? Good point. I’ve asked this question before on previous threads. I haven’t really gotten a satisfactory answer. It seems like the solution for some people is having the taxpayers support the baby, or having the teenager’s parents take care of the baby. I’m sure that a few 15-year-olds were able to be fully responsible for their own offspring, but, y’know, how often does that really happen? And can you imagine that perhaps the _parents_ of the 15-year-old aren’t really keen on the idea of being grandparents quite so soon (and possibly ending up taking care of their grandkid on their own, since the 15-year-old wasn’t quite up to the job)? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/184 "2004-11-15T22:06:24Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I cannot see how someone in their twenties who intentionally goes after 15 year olds isn’t a predator and a scumbag. Well, let’s see: The best and longest-lasting relationship I ever had began when I was 15 and she was 27. We got along fantastically, and a big part of the relationship was our mutual interest in art, film, and literature. I could actually _talk_ to her, which is something that I could never hope for with girls my own age. (The girl that I was with before her was 22.) Most of my friends at that time were UBC students and art-crowd folks – again, because these were people I had something in common with and was interested in spending time with and talking to. People get too hung up on categorizing people according to age, which often has little to do with who they actually _are_. I didn’t habitually hook up with older girls/women _because_ of their age, and they sure as hell weren’t attracted to me _because_ of mine. What makes people attractive to each other goes way beyond the simple-minded metric of D.O.B. The fact is, we live in a society were emotional and intellectual maturity is deliberately deferred until much later than is natural. Of _course_ you’re going to find people who relate better to people who are a bit older than them. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/185 "2004-11-15T22:08:42Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > As to Dutch parents, well any parents who are willing to prostitute their 13 year old daughters and allow them to be displayed in windows like cakes are not exactly people I want to be friends with. Are you crazy, or what? Where did you find the idea that parents can prostitute their 13 y.o. daughters? What stuff are you smoking??? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/186 "2004-11-15T22:11:18Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I’m someone who’s in favor of a blanket “age of accountability” for everything…drinking, driving, voting, fucking, going to war and getting married. I think it should be illegal to stick your dick in anyone who isn’t a legal adult. If you’re really in love, too bad. True love waits, yo. I’m a moron so help me out. At what age do you think a person is adult? Is that 18? I noticed some US states had AoC at 18 – is that what you want? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/187 "2004-11-15T22:11:22Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Because of course it’s impossible to raise a son so that he respects women and doesn’t think with his dick. > You realize that by saying that, you’re condemning everyone else’s son, and calling everyone who has sons but no daughters unfit parents, right? And are you including yourself in the “male = pig” definition? Or did you magically become a saint as soon as your first daughter was born? When it comes to young males- say from about 16-30- then yes, men are total horndogs and yes, I include myself. Why do you think fathers are so protective of their daughters. We know what _we_ were like. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/188 "2004-11-15T22:12:23Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > I’ve asked this question before on previous threads. I haven’t really gotten a satisfactory answer. Easy: teach kids the joys of mutual masturbation, and other types of sexual play that don’t risk pregnancy. Teach them what they need to do to avoid STDs in the process. It’s like with drugs. Rather than making marijuana sound every bit as dangerous as heroin, and thereby convincing kids that you’re just a damned liar, you should say, “Look. None of this stuff is particularly good for you, but a little pot isn’t going to hurt you any worse than too much sitcoms will. Heroin’s gonna fuck you up. Stay away from heroin no matter what.” Give the same message with sex. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/189 "2004-11-15T22:14:05Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > I’m a moron so help me out. At what age do you think a person is adult? Is that 18? I noticed some US states had AoC at 18 – is that what you want? Yes, 18. I guess I forgot to say that part. My bad. It might seem arbitrary but I favor a blanket age of adulthood at 18. That means I would lower the drinking age but raise the driving age and age of consent in some states. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/190 "2004-11-15T22:15:18Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > (Bolding mine.) > > Oh god. Your friend sounds like a _wonderful_ father. > > Jerk. Jerk my ass. I _knew_ that’s what he wanted to hear, otherwise I wouldn’t have said it. He’d spent a lot of time before this telling me how he was worried about his daughter, she didn’t seem to be very popular, etc. It was very important to him that she be someone who “fit in” (while still maintaining her individuality), and he was always saying that he didn’t understand why his daughter wasn’t more popular. So my comment made him feel a hell of a lot better. He also has a very healthy understanding of sex and the fact that humans are sexual creatures, so he didn’t think that his daughter was some kind of impossible paragon of virtue. He knew that sooner or later she was going to get a dick shoved in her, and didn’t try to shield her from sex, but instead educated her on it. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > And let’s not forget that fucking makes babies. If we don’t think a 15 year old is mature enough to vote, drive or drink, then why should she be allowed to parent a child? So you’re saying that any girl who gets pregnant under the age of 18 should have an abortion? Because, you know, a guy who is under the age of 18 _can_, in fact, get a girl pregnant. It’s not like at the age of 18 a males sperm suddenly becomes viable. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/191 "2004-11-15T22:19:02Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Easy: teach kids the joys of mutual masturbation, and other types of sexual play that don’t risk pregnancy. Teach them what they need to do to avoid STDs in the process. I’m floored. Are you serious? Do you remember what it’s like to have the hormones of a teen? And you want them to stroke each other off without wanting some oral or penetration? I know I probably wouldn’t have that much self control… > [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > It’s like with drugs. Rather than making marijuana sound every bit as dangerous as heroin, and thereby convincing kids that you’re just a damned liar, you should say, “Look. None of this stuff is particularly good for you, but a little pot isn’t going to hurt you any worse than too much sitcoms will. Heroin’s gonna fuck you up. Stay away from heroin no matter what.” > > Give the same message with sex. > Daniel I agree that we need to give the same message, but I think that message is “Unsafe and unhealthy sex are bad and can fuck you up. Safe and caring sex is beautiful/wonderful and a part of being human. Oh, and making love is often more satisfying but casual sex is okay too.” ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/192 "2004-11-15T22:21:00Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Oh, and I’d have an absolute cut off of 14, regardless of the age difference. According to you, apparantly, a 15 y.o. is completely unable to make a decision about his/her sex life. Now, let’s assume s/he has sex with a 13 y.o., which is below your absolute cut off age. What should happen : a) The 15 yo must rot in jail and eat rats forever because he slept with someone who is completely off limit? b)Nothing because a 15 yo is irresponsible and can’t comprehend the consequences of sex nor make any sensible decision about his sex life hence can’t be held accountable? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/193 "2004-11-15T22:21:23Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I’m floored. > Are you serious? > Do you remember what it’s like to have the hormones of a teen? > And you want them to stroke each other off without wanting some oral or penetration? No. Do you really think they WON’T want oral or penetration if they don’t go for mutual masturbation? Hormones don’t go away if unused. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/194 "2004-11-15T22:24:04Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > No. Do you really think they WON’T want oral or penetration if they don’t go for mutual masturbation? Hormones don’t go away if unused. > > Daniel No, I don’t think they won’t want sex or oral if they don’t stroke each other off. But I do think that they’d be much more likely to go on and fuck if they’ve already gotten all hot and bothered. You might as well teach abstinance only. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/195 "2004-11-15T22:25:00Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Jerk my ass. I _knew_ that’s what he wanted to hear, otherwise I wouldn’t have said it. He’d spent a lot of time before this telling me how he was worried about his daughter, she didn’t seem to be very popular, etc. It was very important to him that she be someone who “fit in” (while still maintaining her individuality), and he was always saying that he didn’t understand why his daughter wasn’t more popular. So my comment made him feel a hell of a lot better. He also has a very healthy understanding of sex and the fact that humans are sexual creatures, so he didn’t think that his daughter was some kind of impossible paragon of virtue. He knew that sooner or later she was going to get a dick shoved in her, and didn’t try to shield her from sex, but instead educated her on it. I think the _father_ was the jerk. What kind of responsible parent is gratified by hearing a friend say that he wants to fuck his teenage daughter? > [@](#): > > So you’re saying that any girl who gets pregnant under the age of 18 should have an abortion? Because, you know, a guy who is under the age of 18 _can_, in fact, get a girl pregnant. It’s not like at the age of 18 a males sperm suddenly becomes viable. I think we can make it a crime to impregnate an underage girl, no matter how old the guy is, and I think that in most cases the pregnant girl should be given the option of a free abortion or medical care and incentives if she puts the child up for adoption. I also think she needs to be evaluated for her fitness as a parent before she’s permitted custody of the child. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/196 "2004-11-15T22:26:59Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > When it comes to young males- say from about 16-30- then yes, men are total horndogs and yes, I include myself. “Horny” != “predator”. > [@](#): > > Why do you think fathers are so protective of their daughters. We know what _we_ were like. But did you act on **every** urge? Were you **physically** incapable of taking “no” for an answer? Did you score, or attempt to score, **every** time you were alone with a girl? There is such a thing as impulse control. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/197 "2004-11-15T22:27:22Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > According to you, apparantly, a 15 y.o. is completely unable to make a decision about his/her sex life. Now, let’s assume s/he has sex with a 13 y.o., which is below your absolute cut off age. What should happen : > > a) The 15 yo must rot in jail and eat rats forever because he slept with someone who is completely off limit? > > b)Nothing because a 15 yo is irresponsible and can’t comprehend the consequences of sex nor make any sensible decision about his sex life hence can’t be held accountable? Juvie lock up. Kid’s a fucking pig. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/198 "2004-11-15T22:28:06Z")
Good. Answers. That’s better. The problem with the relatively high AoC in the US is that it lets the adult world pretend that teens, from when they reach puberty to 18, _don’t_ have sex. And if they do, the blame should be put on… _that guy_ cause he’s frikkin 19 years old and should know better. Or that guy who’s 22 - OMG! He’s a predator, praying on our _innocent little daughters_ for his own perverted twisted kicks. At the same time, it’s been declared that watching porn where some girl who’s over 18, but look like 14, is _not_ child pornography. The Hill Duffs, Olsen Twins, Brittney, Xina, Lindsay Lohans of the world are buying plastic boobs and shaking their cleavages on MTV and lap dancing their way into young girls hearts as role models, leading 15 year old girls to get piercings, tatoos and a nice set of thongs to go with lowriders that clearly show that there must be some serious trimming going on down there. It’s a hard and ugly world out there for young girls and boys, with hormones rushing through their systems. The girls most prone to end up in trouble are of course those with the worst background, the least advantages on a socio-economical scale. They learn very easy, very fast and very young, that if they’ve got nothing else going for them in their lives, they’ve got sexual power. And AoC has absolutely nothing to do with this. It lets the adult world stick their collective heads in the sand and pretend nothing is going on. But it is. And by denying young people good sexual education, free birth controll and teaching them about the harsh realities of life and sex, you’re condemning them to find out on their own. Which has lead to a situation where teens now don’t think getting/giving a blowjob is “having sex”, it’s just making out. To come with blanket statements that guys guilty of SR are predators and shoud rot in jail is making it _really_ easy on yourself, findning a good bogey man to pin the blame to. I must add this, so no one thinks I’m ok with 25 year old guys humping away with girls in their early teens. I don’t. But the laws simply don’t work to the effect they were intended. I also find it strange that you, **Dio** take this stance. Being a certified lefty, you should know that in almost all liberal welfare states, the AoC is lower, with less STDs, pregnancies and abortions among teens, with mandatory sex-ed from about age ten or eleven and in many cases free contraception. Surely you can see a connection there? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/199 "2004-11-15T22:30:43Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Juvie lock up. Kid’s a fucking pig. You do recognize how your point is contradictory? If kids under 18 are too young to be responsible for their sexuality, then you can’t send them to jail for it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/200 "2004-11-15T22:30:54Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > When it comes to young males- say from about 16-30- then yes, men are total horndogs and yes, I include myself. Boy, ain’t that ever God’s Honest Truth. I was such an irrdeemable horndog at that age that I was 28 before I lost my virginity. God, was I ever a pig! Generalizations aren’t any less stupid when you include yourself in the generalization. Just so you know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756.md?page=11)