# Machetero and Diogenes the Cynic are used cum bags **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756 "2004-11-14T20:33:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2004, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/321 "2004-11-17T05:21:15Z")
> [@stately plump buck mulligan](#): > > Am beginning to hear Benny Hill music as I read this thread. > Chasing each other in circles around the tree of reason. Which is hopefully not a ginkgo tree. What kind of liberation would that be to forsake an absurdity which is both logical and coherent and embrace one which is illogical and incoeherent? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2004, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/322 "2004-11-17T05:41:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Otherwise your apology would only ammount to being sad that you got caught, but that you still consider many of us in this thread to be ‘sick’ or ‘perverts’ or ‘victims’. I don’t have any sympathy for that. This is the kind of reaction I’m afraid of but here goes anyway; [deep breath] I don’t believe that anyone in this thread is sick, or a criminal or that they have been the _victims_ of any criminals. I’m sorry that I insulted and offended so many people in such a manner. I acknowledge that the subject at hand is far more murky and complex than my own broad pronouncements have made it out to be. I really did mean the rat remark to be a joke but I should have used a winky. That seems to have been one of the most badly failed attempts at humor I’ve evr tried to get off around here. I have a tendency to sometimes go more over the top in my rhetoric than I really feel, not consciously to piss people off but just because I get emotional. It still bothers me to see adult males more than a few years removed from high school macking around after very young girls. MOST (not all) of the time, these guys are just creeps and if you guys are honest you’ll acknowledge that. A 24 year old man who has opportunistic sex with a drunk 15 year old girl at a party is not exactly engaging in an act of love. Something happened to me when I was 12 or 13 which strongly colors my views on this (even more than having a daughter). I’d rather not go into detail but if you use your imagination I’m sure you can figure out what it was. I’ve been going back and forth on that last part because I don’t think I’ve talked about it on the board before and it sounds a little pat but there it is. It took me a while to even figure out that was why I was so pissed and so unwilling to bend on this but I think that’s a lot of it. That’s still no excuse for insulting people andI apologize again. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2004, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/323 "2004-11-17T07:11:43Z")
**Stately** : More of them warm embraces, eh? ~evil grins~ I could get used to that. **Dio** : Namaste. I for one accept your apology in the spirit it was given. It even appears that the Dope has lived up to its credo today. As for the rest, I wish you well and hope that, if necessary and desireable to you, the demons you’ve got are brought to light and dealt with. Best wishes. > [@yosemite](#): > > Fair enough. I’d also add that the parents would need to make it clear that they were willing to help to raise a grandchild, if that ended up being the result of their teenager’s sexuality. Agreed. Parents should always endevour to be open and honest and communicate in a forthright manner to make their children fully aware of the dynamics of sex. > [@yosemite](#): > > No, but you’re not 14. Presumably you don’t have parents who are legally and financially responsible for you. Presumably you can hold down a fulltime job and drive a car. True enough, but I certainly couldn’t care for a child. I guess this point was essentially just a quibble though, so I’ll drop it. > [@yosemite](#): > > But as an adult, you don’t _expect_ everyone else to pick up the pieces for you. A 18 year old doesn’t _expect_ to be taken care of so much as a 14-year-old does. I doubt that you expect or feel entitled for your parents to clean up your mistakes. I mean, they _might_, but they don’t _have_ to, do they? But if you were 14, they would have to. Well, truth be told, I’d hope that parents would always help their children, no matter what the age. After all, if someone’s daughter got preggers at age 18, they wouldn’t (I’d hope) feel that they had no responsibility to help. > [@yosemite](#): > > Well, a lot of people would disagree with you. I’m sure. But that’s my intution/hunch, I could be wrong, I’ve not thought about it, and I’m certiantly not making any absolute pronouncements. > [@yosemite](#): > > I’d personally not be terribly comfortable with a teenager having her kid taken away from her (unless she is proven to not be capable of caring for the child), but on the other hand, I think that since her decisions are going to affect her parents, they should have some say. Like, they should be able to decide that she’s not ready for sex yet, because they know that they’ll end up caring for her baby if she gets pregnant. Yes, it’s a sticky issue… I’m not quite sure what ‘official position’ I have, so I’ll beg off for right now. > [@yosemite](#): > > It never was. But it sometimes happens, no matter how much people don’t want it, or plan it. In the case of a young man, he absolutely has no say over whether the baby is adopted or aborted. No say. So even if _he_ isn’t having sex for procreation, it may end up that way, against his wishes. (And once again, it can’t be any other way. It’s her body, she gets final say.)But it happens. All the time. > Yes, it does. Which is why a lot of parents (and other people) might think that a teenager is not “ready” when the teenager thinks that they are. Parents know what it’s like to be a parent—to be responsible. A parent also doesn’t want to be left “holding the bag” of the consequences of their kid’s decision, and who can blame them? Yes, that too is a sticky situation. I think though that by using a birth control method with close to 100 percent effectiveness (like the pill) coupled with honest and open parenting, such unwanted pregnancies would be somewhat rare. But no, that doesn’t answer what to do about the rare ones. > [@yosemite](#): > > You’re right—education about birth control would go a long way in helping prevent suprise pregancies. But even when birth control is used properly, it fails. So why should parents (or taxpayers) have to pay for the times when it does fail? In a short while the teenager will be old enough to be more responsible for their own choices, and misfortunes. I think that such methods as the pill or ‘the shot’ (is it depo?) have a virtually perfect sucess rate if used correctly. Am I wrong? After that, no, I’m not sure how to solve the issue of unwanted pregnancy, gimme a few hours 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2004, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/324 "2004-11-17T07:43:23Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I don’t believe that anyone in this thread is sick, or a criminal or that they have been the _victims_ of any criminals. Glad to hear it **Dio**. For my part, I never felt insulted or offended, because I know that your viewpoint is well-intentioned. We’re all coming from very personal places, here. You remain (and have always been) alright by me, for whatever that’s worth. > [@Diogenes The Cynic](#): > > It still bothers me to see adult males more than a few years removed from high school macking around after very young girls. MOST (not all) of the time, these guys are just creeps and if you guys are honest you’ll acknowledge that. Total agreement here. Of course, I think “macking around” is creepy no matter who’s involved, but obviously people who focus on people they perceive as naive or easy-to-impress in order to get sex are skeevy. It was only the assumption that that was what was happening based only on the given ages that raised hackles. Cheers. _Wanders off looking for some plump Joycean to flirt with_ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2004, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/325 "2004-11-17T07:48:04Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Not just for shock value, but in the hope that it might jar somebody into looking at the subject in a different light. Thanks, Master, for such a subtle technique! Actually, your posts have been about sophism, chain-jerking, and your own big ol’ hangups (Hershey highway, indeed!). An all-time low. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2004, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/326 "2004-11-17T07:52:24Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > _Wanders off looking for some plump Joycean to flirt with_ 😉 Well, if you insist. What’s your sign? 😉😃 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2004, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/327 "2004-11-17T08:02:32Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > What’s your sign? Um, “This the way to the Museyroom – Mind your hats goan in!” No, wait, that can’t be right. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2004, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/328 "2004-11-17T08:06:55Z")
OK, **Dio** cool apology. Thanks. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. I wish you the best in dealing with it. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2004, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/329 "2004-11-17T09:24:36Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Um, “This the way to the Museyroom – Mind your hats goan in!” > > No, wait, that can’t be right. :eek: BOW-CHICKA This is lipsyg dooley krieging the funk from the hinnessy. 5 This is the hinndoo Shimar Shin between the dooley boy and the 6 hinnessy. CHICKA BOW ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/330 "2004-11-17T15:51:51Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Something happened to me when I was 12 or 13 which strongly colors my views on this (even more than having a daughter). I’d rather not go into detail but if you use your imagination I’m sure you can figure out what it was. May I assume this also colors your view of Michael Jackson? Sure, he was up to something with those boys but all we have for now is conjecture. The only ones who know exactly what that something was aren’t talking. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/331 "2004-11-17T16:11:35Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > What would the older woman have served time for? And wouldn’t you have been liable to serve time for a similar offence? Could you clarify? She would’ve served time for statutory rape, if i understand North Carolina laws correctly. I wouldn’t’ve, since I was less than two years older than my girlfriend. **Dio** , I appreciate your apology. As I said, I grew up watching things like this happen a lot, and I also grew up with a lot of friends who had been sexually abused. It was very clear to me as a teenager which was which, and that both were pretty common. My problem with your position in this thread has been than you seem to consider “nobody was hurt” not to be a valid defense. I think it must be a defense, since otherwise, the law itself has great potential to hurt people, as in my example where I could’ve gotten a woman sent to prison who really didn’t need to go there. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756.md?page=16)