# Machetero and Diogenes the Cynic are used cum bags **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756 "2004-11-14T20:33:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/41 "2004-11-15T01:26:52Z")
So if this had been a 15 year old boy instead of a girl, would you all feel the same way? How about a 14 year old boy? 13? What’s the cut off? ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/42 "2004-11-15T01:28:33Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Consent makes no difference to whether it is predatory to have sex with children. Again, we don’t know enough about the case to determine if he knew he was having sex with a child or not. Should he have known? Depends on the situation. Since you’re all about making assumptions, let’s assume ‘the perv’ and his ‘vic’ are at a party. She tells hime that she’s over 18 (she looks it). They have sex. Vic’s Mom and Dad find out and are pissed. Now the perv is busted for having sex with a 15 year old. His life is in the shitter–he’s probably going to jail, he’s going to have to register as a sex offender, his going to work shitty jobs, etc. The perv’s life is ruined. And this is just in your mind, because by definition the girl couldn’t have consented. Nice guy you are, **Dio** ; good thing you have a daugher and not a son 'cuz this scenario is rarely busted the other way. I’m not defending the guy for having sex with someone under age. But you were being an asshole in that thread, and now you’re just spewing shit to get a rise out of the rest of us if we try to be reasonable. Nice 'tude you got going there. On preview, I agree a lot with **Tuckerfan**. And if it had been a 15 year old boy, it would have depended on the circumstances, _just like this time_. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/43 "2004-11-15T01:30:13Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Even if girl pulled a Traci Lords? The exception that proves the rule. Tracy Lords used a fake ID and it was a situation where the other performers had a good faith reason to believe she was of age. The industry wan’t diligent enough in protecting their actors from this kind of unintentional criminality but the Lords case was an aberration as far as this kind of case usually goes. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/44 "2004-11-15T01:33:07Z")
> [@stretch](#): > > Again, we don’t know enough about the case to determine if he knew he was having sex with a child or not. Should he have known? Depends on the situation. Since you’re all about making assumptions, let’s assume ‘the perv’ and his ‘vic’ are at a party. She tells hime that she’s over 18 (she looks it). They have sex. Vic’s Mom and Dad find out and are pissed. Now the perv is busted for having sex with a 15 year old. His life is in the shitter–he’s probably going to jail, he’s going to have to register as a sex offender, his going to work shitty jobs, etc. The perv’s life is ruined. And this is just in your mind, because by definition the girl couldn’t have consented. Nice guy you are, **Dio** ; good thing you have a daugher and not a son 'cuz this scenario is rarely busted the other way. > > I’m not defending the guy for having sex with someone under age. But you were being an asshole in that thread, and now you’re just spewing shit to get a rise out of the rest of us if we try to be reasonable. Nice 'tude you got going there. > > On preview, I agree a lot with **Tuckerfan**. And if it had been a 15 year old boy, it would have depended on the circumstances, _just like this time_. I still say it’s the guy’s responsibility to make sure he knows how old his sex partners are (I always did when I was young and single . and it saved me from making a bad mistake a couple of times). So how about a 14 year old? 13? 12? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/45 "2004-11-15T01:35:55Z")
> [@laina\_f](#): > > And **Harborwolf** , _by definition_ there is no consensual sex when one party is _below the age of consent_. There is a huge maturity difference between 15 and 20. That’s why the 20-year-old gets to drive and vote. I am **Harborwolf** , and I meant consensual in the non-legal sense. I understand the legal definition, and as stated I think the guy is sick and stupid, but we don’t know if this is rape as in the knock you down rip off the close and force sex under penalty of severe harm rape. That’s all that I was saying. I knew a guy (in his twenties) who got both a 14 and a 16 year old pregnant and served time for the 16 year old. He wasn’t as much a pervert or a predator as just very sexualy desperate and highly fucktarted. The point, not every 20 something who bangs a teenager is some sick sexual predator. Some of them really are that stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/46 "2004-11-15T01:37:16Z")
I’m with **Tuckerfan**. When I was 16, I had a boyfriend who was 3 or 4 years older than I, and yeah, we jumped in bed like hot bunnies anytime we could. According to **Diogenes** , that guy should be rotting in jail now. Fuck that! It was COMPLETELY consentual, I ended up dating the guy for FOUR years, and there is NO WAY IN HELL that you could convince me that he did anything wrong. I also knew plenty of teenage girls who had no problems lying about their ages and who often were starry eyed over college guys. They would have easily slept with men 5 or 10 years older than they were, and not even batted an eye about telling them they were 18 or 19 if they were asked. Given that the thread in question gave no details to the situation, anyone who automatically decides the guy is a pedophile who should rot in hell has no business being on the Straight Dope. We’re here to fight ignorance, not perpetuate it. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/47 "2004-11-15T01:39:15Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Wow! A position that child rape is wrong is a pittable offense now? No, ripping the guy in a thread started by his friend to ask what to say to a guy facing jail time is a pittable offense. Regardless of what you may think about what **neuroman** ’s friend did, the fact is that _ **neuroman** _ did nothing wrong. He openly admits that what his friend did was wrong. He wasn’t trying to defend his friend in that thread. He was only asking for advice about what to _say_ to his friend. You took that as an invitation to hijack the thread to rub it in his face what an asshole you think his friend is. Personally, I think that was totally uncalled for. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/48 "2004-11-15T01:39:52Z")
So how about a 14 year old everybody? 13? 12? **Athena** , I’m sorry you were exploited that way and the guy who raped you deserves to be eating rats in a cell right now. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/49 "2004-11-15T01:47:02Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > So if this had been a 15 year old boy instead of a girl, would you all feel the same way? How about a 14 year old boy? 13? What’s the cut off? If it was consentual, I wouldn’t give a rat’s ass about the genders of the folks involved, but then again, I’m funny like that, I think that if people of the same sex wanna boink, or twenty people wanna get together and boink, that’s their business, and not mine. The same with a family that thinks it’s okay to raise their kids in a nudist colony. As for the cut-off age, that’s tricky. I’d be more in support of a law which placed a five year limit on age differences involving sex partners under the age of 14 (i.e. a 19 and a 14 is legal, but a 35 year old and a 14 year old is illegal). That way an 18 wouldn’t have to worry about the “law” coming down on him because his girlfriend (and let’s point out that Mary Kay LeTournou is the **exception** to statutory rape prosecutions, an adult woman sleeping with an underage male is more likely to be saluted than scorned, totally sexist if you ask me) is 17. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/50 "2004-11-15T01:47:04Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > No, ripping the guy in a thread started by his friend to ask what to say to a guy facing jail time is a pittable offense. > > Regardless of what you may think about what **neuroman** ’s friend did, the fact is that _ **neuroman** _ did nothing wrong. He openly admits that what his friend did was wrong. He wasn’t trying to defend his friend in that thread. He was only asking for advice about what to _say_ to his friend. You took that as an invitation to hijack the thread to rub it in his face what an asshole you think his friend is. Personally, I think that was totally uncalled for. I already apologize to **neuroman**. In skimming the OP I overlooked his request not to flame his buddy. I wasn’t deliberately ignoring his request, I just didn’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/51 "2004-11-15T01:49:05Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > If it was consentual, I wouldn’t give a rat’s ass about the genders of the folks involved, but then again, I’m funny like that, I think that if people of the same sex wanna boink, or twenty people wanna get together and boink, that’s their business, and not mine. The same with a family that thinks it’s okay to raise their kids in a nudist colony. > > As for the cut-off age, that’s tricky. I’d be more in support of a law which placed a five year limit on age differences involving sex partners under the age of 14 (i.e. a 19 and a 14 is legal, but a 35 year old and a 14 year old is illegal). That way an 18 wouldn’t have to worry about the “law” coming down on him because his girlfriend (and let’s point out that Mary Kay LeTournou is the **exception** to statutory rape prosecutions, an adult woman sleeping with an underage male is more likely to be saluted than scorned, totally sexist if you ask me) is 17. So 17 and 12 is A-ok? How about 16 and 11? 15 and 10? If you’re going to have a law, you have to delineate a cut off. What should it be? ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/52 "2004-11-15T01:49:48Z")
Athena, I’m with you. I dated a 24 year old when I was 17. Told my parents he was 21 so they wouldn’t have a coronary. We didn’t boink but that was a joint decision. I would not have felt raped if we had consensually decided to go for it. I am getting the feeling that some “men” would like to go back to the Victorian age and “protect” all us poor females from “ourselves”. Diogenes I’m looking at you here. PS I’m 50 now and not some starry eyed kid. I still think I was responsible for my actions at the age of 15, 16, 17… ---
**Author:** ![vinniepaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@vinniepaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vinniepaz)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/53 "2004-11-15T01:50:49Z")
I always respected Diogenes until this thread. You’re sitting up there on your high horse refusing to listen to any sort of reasoning and just saying “anyone who commits the act of statutory is a sick pervert and deserves to rot in hell until the end of time.” The statutory laws just pick an arbitrary cut off. I’m fifteen, and if a 20-something banged my friend, I’d be pretty mad, but I’d be pretty mad if anyone did that. I personally know s who take advantage of older men on purpose. Sometimes it’s not the guys fault. ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/54 "2004-11-15T01:50:57Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Wahh…the poor rapist. ☹ > > At some point in your life, someone you love may get sexually exploited at a party. I hope the people you turn to for comfort and advice will be sympathetic to the victim rather than the criminal. > > Being drunk is no excuse, by the way…and neither is “I didn’t know she was 15, yer honor.” Every statch perp says that and it doesn’t fly. It’s his responsibility to _know_- not guess- what he’s sticking his dick in. When I was 20 I hooked up with a very lovely girl at a party. We spent the night talking, having a few beers, even a little kissing. We exchanged numbers. Over the next few days we hooked up, fooled around, etc, etc. It wasn’t until about 2 weeks later I learned she was 16 and in high school - which was right around the time I was meeting her parents. I allowed the relationship to continue even after learning this because she was very mature, very proper, and one of those “once in a lifetime” type girls. Plus, I had her parents blessing. They loved me. She was 17 when we moved in together. I was then 21. The age of consent in the area I was living was 18. I wasn’t attacted to the fact she was young. In fact, she looked in her twenties. I was attracted to her. How she talked, how she held herself, her smile, her voice, how she smelled, everything someone normally falls head over heels in love about. We took a trip to Reno together after she moved in and we spent the night in various casios, having drinks, playing cards. Not one person questioned her age. In fact, I always forgot how old she was because of her maturity. In any case, by your terms, I’m a lousy child rapist. Sadly, things aren’t always so black/white. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/55 "2004-11-15T01:51:18Z")
Never mind, **Tucker** , I think you meant to say _over_ the age of 14. One more thing, though, **neuroman** didn’t say this guy was 20, did he? He said he was “in his 20’s,” which could make him as old as 29. ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/56 "2004-11-15T01:55:45Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I still say it’s the guy’s responsibility to make sure he knows how old his sex partners are (I always did when I was young and single . > and it saved me from making a bad mistake a couple of times). > > So how about a 14 year old? 13? 12? Sure, it’s the guy’s responsibility to try to determine the age of his sexual partners. What some of us are saying, and we know you are getting it, is that we don’t know whether this guy is a perv or just an idiot. You help your friends even if they are idiots. I wasn’t going to get into personal experience here, but I was sexually active at 14. My first husband was 23 when we met–I was 15. He didn’t ask my age, I didn’t ask his age, we just dated. Then we got pregnant, got married, got pregnant, got divorced, and moved on. My first husband wasn’t a perv or predator–he was an idiot (still is). When I was 19 I began a long-term relationship with a 34 year old. He also wasn’t a perv; we had common interests, kids the same age, and enjoyed each other’s company. We dated and lived together for 4 years and were still friends until I moved across state. These two men were not predators. Granted I was fairly mature for my age (circumstances, don’t you know), but they were not preying on young females, they just happened to find a young female who was interested in them. When I was 24, I dated a guy who was 20. It’s all about the individual. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/57 "2004-11-15T01:57:39Z")
“But she’s really _mature_ for her age” [snort] If I had a dime for every time I heard that one. Isn’t that what Mary Kay Letourneau said? Self delusion, man. Self delusion. I can’t believe I’m the only one here who thinks it’s sleazy to bone teenage girls. Do any of you have _daughters_? ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/58 "2004-11-15T01:59:34Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > **Athena** , I’m sorry you were exploited that way and the guy who raped you deserves to be eating rats in a cell right now. **Diogenes** , you are a stupid fuck. By what bizarre, fantasy-land measure of maturity is a twenty-year-old a _rapist who deserves to rot in jail_ when he has consensual sex with a sixteen-year-old? Would it have been all right if he were nineteen? Eighteen? Seventeen? Seriously, dude. I’m enough of a lurker to see you run your foul, knee-jerking, intolerant mouth like an elevated train a hundred times too often. ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/59 "2004-11-15T02:01:57Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > “But she’s really _mature_ for her age” [snort] > > If I had a dime for every time I heard that one. > > Isn’t that what Mary Kay Letourneau said? > > Self delusion, man. Self delusion. > > I can’t believe I’m the only one here who thinks it’s sleazy to bone teenage girls. Do any of you have _daughters_? Well, yes, asshole, I have two daughters, fuck you very much. Two adult daughters conceived with my ‘perv’ first husband. And an adult step-son. Unlike you, I’ve actually been an underage female, **Dio**. Don’t tell me what we are and aren’t capable of. PS: > [@](#): > > I already apologize to neuroman. In skimming the OP I overlooked his request not to flame his buddy. I wasn’t deliberately ignoring his request, I just didn’t see it. Next time at least read the fucking OP. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/60 "2004-11-15T02:03:32Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > Yeah, from the few details you’ve given, it certainly sounds like your friend might have been stupid rather then evil. Something I’m sure we can all relate to. If not personally, we’ve all had a friend or family member whose managed to make a mess of things not through ill will, but just normal, everyday, fucking up. > > . When I was 18, I slept with a 13 year old girl. I had _no freaking idea that she was 13_. I could’ve swore she was my age or older. We were at a party at the house of some friends. We partied there often. We went to the bedroom, took care of business and fell asleep. She left before I woke up. The next morning, it came to my attention that my friends knew the girl, and knew how old she was. The owner of the house exclaimed “She goes to school with my son!!”, then broke into hysterical laughter, as did all the other people who were still there that morning. They thought it was a great joke on poor ole **spooje**. I only bring this up to show that some girls who are not of legal\* look \* like they are of legal age. I don’t if that’s what happened to the OP’s friend or not, but it’s not always a cut and dried situation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756.md?page=4)