# Machetero and Diogenes the Cynic are used cum bags **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756 "2004-11-14T20:33:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/121 "2004-11-15T07:44:10Z")
Sorry, But I’m of the opinion that DtC is being a dick in this instance. Firstly, I’d like to know what is going on in this particular circumstance. To me, statutory rape is an age issue like drinking where different culture determine their own lines for the “too young to fuck” category. Like Rune said, in some countries the age is much lower. They seem to get by just fine. Who reported the crime? Her parents? If the sex was consentual, and her parents filed the suit, then I think that it is bullshit to jump on the guy. I don’t know the circumstances under which he had sex. If he had sex with a 15 year-old who still doesn’t regret it then I agree that he shouldn’t face such a stiff penalty. Sure there should be a penalty, but its such a subjective matter. And lets all remember our reactions towards the young boy who had sex with his teacher. Our opinions towards these matters are totally skewed by gender roles. At least a lot of people are. There are a lot of laws on the books that are just an arbitrary line drawn by someone who isn’t affected by that line. Drinking age is 21 in America but it is 18 or 16 in Europe. It also depends if said 15-year-old has had sex before with another minor. That would affect matters greatly in my opinion. If she chooses to have sex with someone of her own age, it shouldn’t matter if she chooses an older guy. Its the problem of whether a young girl is responsible to make the deciscion for herself. Were they in a relationship? It doesn’t sound like it though. What was their relationship before? Was it just that one night? How drunk was she? I am not saying that it is acceptable, but I can imagine a situation where I think it isn’t worthy of 10 years in prison. Imagine a guy who had some kind of prior relatioship with her who found her at a party where she had a little to drink where they later went off to a private room where they had sex and people heard them having sex and a couple of people heard them or may have walked in on them (your 1+ witness right there). If the word got out that she had sex with this guy through gossip and got back to her parents who decided to file suit, then I would think that it is less than fair. But then there is the obvious chance that it was a dude who saw a really hot 15 year-old who was at a party who was really drunk and convinced her to have sex with him. That’s what we don’t know. The whole point of this pit thread is this… There is a line to be drawn somewhere there. It depends on a lot of things. Under what circumstances did the sex take place? What was the prior relationship? I am all for the 5 year limit up to a certain age, and I would draw the line at 15. That’s why I don’t know about this particular circumstance. But the main point is that he is asking for advice on how to help his friend. It seems like he knows he made a mistake. If I had a friend who murdered someone who he saw in bed with his wife, I’d try to offer any kind of support that I could. If he realized it was wrong, and wanted help. People make mistakes and I am not about to go casting the first stone. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/122 "2004-11-15T07:47:39Z")
I think the questions we have ask are “was the guy a predator out looking for young chicks” or “was the guy just some goob who showed remarkably poor judgement?” ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/123 "2004-11-15T07:53:40Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > I think the questions we have ask are “was the guy a predator out looking for young chicks” or “was the guy just some goob who showed remarkably poor judgement?” Even still, that wasn’t apparent, and a few people decided to make that judgement based on very little facts and condemn the guy to rot in prison. We still dont’ know from the info and that’s the point. The last thread was about how to console his friend and this thread is about the guys who rushed to judgement. with little information. I think the primary lesson is don’t rush to judgement on someone’s character until you are more certain, and secondly don’t condemn a man when it isn’t certain that he had acted with malice. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/124 "2004-11-15T08:22:01Z")
> [@stately plump buck mulligan](#): > > I can totally understand the concerned father viewpoint. Have been frustrated into wall-punching frenzies because of it, but I understand it. Fathers have a way of loving their beautiful, intelligent girls with all their heart and soul, and then trying to lock them in a tower. Preferably one with a moat. And a dragon. (hope your tower’s walls weren’t too banged up.) > [@stately plump buck mulligan](#): > > But concerned father angles work better when they go something like, “Look, there are some real douche nozzles out there, and I know because I used to be one of them, and here is my sagely advice” rather than “You are too immature to know what’s good for you, and on top of it, anyone who would dare think about touching you is a predatory douche nozzle who should have maggots eat his brain from the inside out while being raped by Bubba in a medieval dungeon setting, and no, there are no exceptions. Go play with your Barbies until your eighteenth birthday.” Work better? Ugg no understand work better… Ugg get angry now!!! 😉 Seriously though, I know that in previous generations, males weren’t taught to really get in touch with emotions other than those having to do with the territorial imperative. Go back a couple generations and you’ll find men who’re a lot more comfortable with yelling than crying. A lot more. It’s hard to be a dad (I’d imagine). While the thought process is “I was a young guy. I knew what I did. I know what my friends did. Jeez, young guys are assholes! I love you and want to keep you safe with the benefit of my experience.” what comes out is “Grrr! Sex, you? No! No sex for you! No! Boys? No, no boys!” As in many things in life, communication would help. But dads just muddle though, and try to protect their little girls. (and let’s be frank, no matter how old a child is, they’re still their parents’ little boy/girl.) And as long as we’re not mincing words, the only way children generally learn is trial-and-error. You can tell a baby a million times not to touch the stove, but until they burn their hand, chances are they won’t understand. So chastity belts aren’t an answer, but father’s don’t want their little girls to deal with heartbreak/disease/pregnancy. Ironically the best and most effective policy would be open communication and to hope for the best. But goddessdamn I’d imagine that just hoping is hard when you’re afraid for your kids and you think you can ‘protect’ them from the world. I mean, when you know that all it takes is one time to get HIV, or knocked up… > [@Diogenes](#): > > I have a daughter and that colors my views. I can see how if I had a 15 year old daughter who got drunk at a party and fucked I’d automatically jump to the conclusion that her ‘lover’ had taken advantage of her, even if she was drunk and wanting sex. I’d probably want to bring the guy to court also. But… I’d hope that if she really was in love and/or able to deal with it that I might chill off on the overprotective-father-line. I’d hope. Sometimes, ‘protectiveness’ may very well be ‘knee-jerk’. There are certainly some 15 year old girls who can handle sex. And certainly not every 20 year old guy who sleeps with a 17 year old girl is scum. > [@Diogenes](#): > > I find all the talk about predatory 13 year olds rather disturbing and misogynist. A 13 or 14 year old girl who is that aggressively promiscuous with adults (or even other kids for that matter) is almost always a victim of earlier sexual abuse. How is this mysognistic? Honestly, I just don’t grok. It’s a fact and something that happened… color me confused. (in fact, some including **stately** (not to put words in mouths) have essentially said that your view of female sexuality ammount to mysogeny…) And, although many might have been abused, that doesn’t mean every hyper-sexual 13 year old was abused. > [@Diogenes](#): > > There is no reason that anyone must drill a teenager. No adult is being unfairly victimized if he is not permitted to place his penis inside the body of a minor. Must? No, nobody has to do anything but take up space. But… from your remarks, it looks like you’re putting it at the level of sex-only. And it might very well be, but would your paradigm change if both people were in love? Now let’s say, simply for argument’s sake, that there was a sixteen or seventeen year old girl who was emotionally able to have sex, and in love with a guy… and he loved her and would treat her right. Is it, perhaps, accurate to say that the law got in the way of something? > [@Diogenes](#): > > It is the adult’s responsibility to know what he’s putting his cock in. It is not the responsibility of a minor to inform him or to tell him the truth. Legally, yes. Morally? If a guy goes to a party, and hooks up with a girl, let’s say he asks her what her age is, hell, even gets to see a (fake) ID. And it turns out that she’s 16. Is it still morally his responsibility? What if she’s 17? What if she’s a week under 18? A day? What if she’s a legal age of consent in her home state but not legal wherever she’s at? Law is somewhat cut and dry, morality can get messy. > [@Diogenes](#): > > I am personally creeped out by adults who are unable to form sexual relationships with partners who can vote and don’t have curfews. No adult should have any serious interest in a high school girl. It’s skeevy, skeevy skeevy. It’s loser behavior at the very least and predatory at worst. If an adult **only** dated people that much younger, yes, I’d say that spoke to an inability to form mature relationships. However… do you honestly think that’s always the case? If a guy who is 20 happens to find a 17 year old girl who’s smart, with-it, attractive, sweet, mature, etc… attractive, does that make him a pervert or a loser? **Neuroman** : Scum is slang for cum. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/125 "2004-11-15T08:25:10Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > **Neuroman** : Scum is slang for cum. Soap scum is soap cum? ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/126 "2004-11-15T08:32:14Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Soap scum is soap cum? Depends on what you use the soap for. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/127 "2004-11-15T08:33:46Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Soap scum is soap cum? Lucikly I may never be able to think of a ‘thick rich lather’ in quite the same way. Damn you! 😃 Oh, and like Lavar would say: [you don’t have to take my word for it](http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/ZS2.HTM) [Well, today “scumbag” is a synonym for a nasty person; originally, however, it meant a used condom - scum is slang for semen.](http://www.spotlight-online.de/CoCoCMS/generator/viewDocument.php?doc=15319) ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/128 "2004-11-15T08:36:30Z")
Slang for semen… You’d think I would’ve known that. ---
**Author:** ![zoogirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b9bd4f/32.png) [@zoogirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoogirl)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/129 "2004-11-15T08:41:54Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I find all the talk about predatory 13 year olds rather disturbing and misogynist. A 13 or 14 year old girl who is that aggressively promiscuous with adults (or even other kids for that matter) is almost always a victim of earlier sexual abuse. I can’t vouch for one girl as I didn’t meet her until her teens. One was abused a couple of times by our neighbourhood pedophile. The other three, myself included, were not. I knew these girls since we were all six. Believe me, if they were being abused, I’d have known. No, we looked at it as a game. Sex was fun, powerful and relatively safe. You might get pregnant or catch a dose, but that’s all. Remember, this was pre-AIDS. It was just assumed that if you knew a guy, eventually you’d have sex with him. We passed a couple of the guys around the whole group, plus loaned 'em out to a few friends. > [@](#): > > Even if a 13 year old is sexually aggressive, that doesn’t make it ok for an adult to stick his dick in him/her. If that 13 year old is as physically mature and able to pass themselves off as much older as we were, then I don’t really think it’s all the guy’s fault. As I said, some of us made a point to lie deliberately. I didn’t, but I started late anyway. I can understand how fatherhood might make you want to think the best of little girls. The thing is, at least in my experiance, they stop being innocents long before they become of age. If it was like that during the period I’m talking about, '73 - '79 or so, imagine what it’s like now with Brittany and Christina as role models! ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/130 "2004-11-15T08:42:47Z")
> [@G.B.Shaw](#): > > CAESAR (recovering his self-possession). Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and > island are the laws of nature. **Dio** - are American teens more vulnerable or indeed that different from Dutch teens? Where the AoC _is_ 12. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/131 "2004-11-15T08:47:50Z")
> [@zoogirl](#): > > No, we looked at it as a game. Sex was fun, powerful and relatively safe. You might get pregnant or catch a dose, but that’s all. Remember, this was pre-AIDS. It was just assumed that if you knew a guy, eventually you’d have sex with him. We passed a couple of the guys around the whole group, plus loaned 'em out to a few friends. Where the hell were you when I was gowing up??? ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/132 "2004-11-15T08:48:47Z")
Off on a tangent, but at 14 years of age I was frequently mistaken for being 18-20ish. It’s easy to make the mistake - some girls just look older than they are. I don’t think it was my facial appearance so much as the fact that I was very tall for my age, and the Polish genes had already done their work on the bust and hips. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/133 "2004-11-15T08:51:36Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > **Dio** - are American teens more vulnerable or indeed that different from Dutch teens? Where the AoC _is_ 12. I think the question is: Is American culture more puritanical than Europe’s cultures? (having spent six months living in Europe, I can answer that one real easy…) The fact is, our country is terrified of seeing a woman’s naked breast on TV. Now, take an ax and lop that breast off with plenty of blood and gore, and we’re talking good holywood stuff, bring the kids! consenting adults engaging in (maybe kinky sex) = bad bad bad, we must protect our children! non consenting adults being blown up, shot, slashed, dismembered, eviscerated, burned alive, etc… = Man, that was **cool!** Although I have to admit, considering 12 year olds to be able to consent… kinda blows my mind. (as a side note, I wonder what the rates of teen pregnancy in both countries are at now?) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/134 "2004-11-15T08:54:57Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Where the hell were you when I was gowing up??? [the more things change…](http://www.snopes.com/risque/school/bracelet.asp) ---
**Author:** ![robotic\_panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed8c4c/32.png) [@robotic\_panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robotic_panda)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/135 "2004-11-15T09:19:54Z")
This whole thread reminded me of a memory… when I was in 6th grade, there was a girl (12 years old) who was “dating” an 18 year old… everyone thought she was so cool; except me, I sensed the ickiness of the whole relationship. (Having a 19 year old brother at the time helped.) The girl went ahead and came out with the fact that they were having sex, and she got some sort of twisted respect from the popular kids. It still creeps me out thinking about it. 10 years later, i’m 22 and dating a 28 year old, and whenever i bring up that I was 12 when he was 18 he gets creeped out. The teen years are so changing, its hard to pin a maturity point anywhere; but since the law makes it so sticky i’m just glad to be out of them. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/136 "2004-11-15T11:37:16Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I still say it’s the guy’s responsibility to make sure he knows how old his sex partners are (I always did when I was young and single . > and it saved me from making a bad mistake a couple of times). Must’ve been hell lugging around that lie detector. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/137 "2004-11-15T13:08:30Z")
I remember the day I turned 14. 14 is the age of consent here, so I was hit with a magic wand that imbued me with the ability to make decisions for myself. It really sucked when I travelled into places with different ages of consent and had to be brainless again, though. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/138 "2004-11-15T13:14:24Z")
> [@Machetero](#): > > Criminal Sexual Perverts and the folks who love them, make excuses for them, and some who probably are them. It’s a pitiful world filled with real “cum bags,” and it’s apparent to anyone with any sense, maturity, or moral compass that its not me or anyone else who isn’t a big fan of adults fucking young minors. :rolleyes: Oh **machetero** , post [#86](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5495176&postcount=86) is calling your name too. Just replace Diogenes name with your own and add a big ole “take your moral compass and shove it up your holier than thou ass.” ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/139 "2004-11-15T13:18:57Z")
Meant to put this with my above post, but my brain doesn’t wake up until Wednesday :smack: > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Have I been over the top in my condemnations? I suppose so. That’s just my personality. I get emotional. I hyperbolize…and I have a daughter. No biggie Dio. Just thought you were coming across as a bit harsh and occasionaly idiotic. We all have our moments. I have a daughter too, so I understand. Of course, she knows that she is not to have sex with anyone until I have been dead for at least 10 years. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756/140 "2004-11-15T13:24:42Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > **Athena** , I’m sorry you were exploited that way and the guy who raped you deserves to be eating rats in a cell right now. Oh my! I’m a rape vict… I mean, survivor! And I never even KNEW it! I’m off to find a support group and a lawyer, see you all later! And BTW, **Diogenes** , thanks for giving me such a big laugh this morning. It’s really made my day! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/machetero-and-diogenes-the-cynic-are-used-cum-bags/274756.md?page=8)