# Macs vs. PCs for graphic design **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 27, 2000, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605 "2000-10-27T15:31:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/21 "2000-10-28T08:09:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DeutschFox \* > Wow, graphic design, a real biggie in the world of the internet and private industry!!! Probably less than 1% of the internet investment expense. \*\* The last report I read on the subject indicated that Graphic Design and publishing was a $10 Billion/year business (and that is just in the US). Time Magazine recently did a cover story on design, and declared the 21st Century as “the Century of Design.” Graphic Design and Publishing is a HUGE industry, one of the biggest in the US. It covers everything from ad agencies to TV to newspapers to Disney. And it is all 100% Mac based. If you include Industrial Design (where Mac is a major player as well) then you’ve got to include just about all manufactured products in the US, from cars to toothbrushes. I’m trying to find a report I read on the web, it had a case study of about 15 companies that converted their publishing divisions from Mac to PCs. I remember it vividly, I’m hunting for it, you’ve just got to read it. They reported that when PC conversions occurred, most of the top designers quit in frustration, it was impossible to find replacements with PC experience, retooling costs always exceeded estimates, tech support costs exploded, etc etc. The most astonishing fact: of the 15 studios, within 2 years, 13 of them were back to 100% Mac. The other 3 went bankrupt. Oh, and yes, I get the picture, deutchfox. I get you quite clearly. You are irrational about the subject of PCs. Anyone who can rationally compare both systems can see the advantages of each platform. In graphics, Mac rules. ---
**Author:** ![DeutschFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DeutschFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeutschFox)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/22 "2000-10-28T08:42:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SNenc \* > \*\*Deutsch… \*\* Thanks SNenc, you are the only one reading this thread so far that seems to be calm and a gentleman 🙂 … and yes I was and still am hot under the collar … this MAC crap has got to stop! … but as you see I am the only PC’r reading this stuff (being nice) and out-numbered … No other PC’r is in here reading this stuff (nice again) … Why? … because they know that the MAC’ers will use some BS irrational and illogical arguments that have been thrown at me to support a losing and baseless cause. I’m here to tell the rest of these @?@#@?'s … that I don’t have to justify my cause … 90% should be enough justification … the ridiculous 10% market share should be enough … and holy cow a $10 billion industry … cut me a break … the market spills that much in a day (in drinks for you who are clueless)!!! And now I have to show some f’g a **h** e my work to justify his existence of an extinct species … s\*\*t … cut me another break … I guess I will have to go out an solicit some sane PC people to come in here to read this garbage … and you who say you are PC’rs too are like the people who call CSPAN and say they are Republicans … when they are really Democrats … What a shell game!!! Andi … Ð-Fox® ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/23 "2000-10-28T08:45:23Z")
I’ve been rereading this thread, let us not get hijacked by PC bigots who aren’t contributing anything towards answering the OP. Let’s stick to the point, avoid this thread being moved to the Great Debates section, and answer the question. As far as I can tell, the original question is, “Do I have to use Macs for graphic design?” The answer is NO. No, you don’t have to use a Mac. But you’d be cutting your own throat to use anything else. For the moment, let us not deal with the technical issues. Let’s just deal with the business end. According to this report: [http://www.mackido.com/Reference/GISTICS-ROI.html](http://www.mackido.com/Reference/GISTICS-ROI.html) published by the independent research institution GISTICS, Mac designers just make more money for the same effort. And we all want to work less and make more money. A brief excerpt: "Detailed ROI [return on investment] analysis reveals that a Macintosh-using creative professional produces $26,441 more annual revenue and $14,488 more net profit (per person) than a Windows user of comparable skill engaged in similar work. This revenue differential enables a PowerPC Macintosh-based studio to achieve payback on a new platform in 4.59 months. In stark contrast, a Windows NT-based firm requires 12.58 months to recoup its investment-eight months longer." So there it is. You can use other platforms, but you’ll make more money on a Mac. Read the report for the detailed reasons why. I wish you could read the original report, but unfortunately, they are now charging for it. This report is an excerpt of a HUGE report that on PCs vs. Macs. GISTICS is the source of that report about the 15 studios who converted to PCs and they all went back to Mac or went bankrupt. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/24 "2000-10-28T08:50:05Z")
Rambling excerpts: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DeutschFox \* > > this MAC crap has got to stop! … but as you see I am the only PC’r reading this stuff (being nice) and out-numbered … No other PC’r is in here reading this stuff (nice again) … Why? … because they know that the MAC’ers will use some BS irrational and illogical arguments that have been thrown at me to support a losing and baseless cause. I’m here to tell the rest of these @?@#@?'s …cut me a break … the market spills that much in a day (in drinks for you who are clueless)!!! … I guess I will have to go out an solicit some sane PC people to come in here to read this garbage … and you who say you are PC’rs too are like the people who call CSPAN and say they are Republicans … when they are really Democrats … What a shell game!!! > Andi … Ð-Fox® Honey. Please. Take a deep breath. Stop taking whatever controlled substance you have been taking. And remember. It’s just a… **COMPUTER.** ---
**Author:** ![DeutschFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DeutschFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeutschFox)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/25 "2000-10-28T08:52:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > \*\*I’ve been rereading this thread, let us not get hijacked by PC bigots who aren’t contributing anything towards answering the OP. Let’s stick to the point, avoid this thread being moved to the Great Debates section, and answer the question. > > As far as I can tell, the original question is, “Do I have to use Macs for graphic design?” > > The answer is NO. No, you don’t have to use a Mac. But you’d be cutting your own throat to use anything else. > > \*\* Look guy, the OP question was “MAC vs PC for Graphic Design”, what do you mean by being “hijacked by PC bigots” … read the question !!! I guess I should cut my throat … you people are clueless to even what the question is! ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/26 "2000-10-28T08:58:15Z")
Deutsch honey: Yes, the OP is about _graphic design._ So, since you claim to be a _professional_ graphic designer, could we see your company’s home page? Could you give more information about the clients you have? Some examples of your work? What’s it like to be a professional graphics designer? I think there are some fine pro graphics designers (like techchick, I believe?) who use PCs. But I do believe that Macs predominate in this field. ChasE.'s posts (and others here, MANY others here) seem to bear this out. So, Deutsch, deary, please provide your perspective on this, specifically, as a _professional_ graphics designer? Hmmmm? ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/27 "2000-10-28T09:14:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DeutschFox \* > Look guy, the OP question was “MAC vs PC for Graphic Design”, what do you mean by being “hijacked by PC bigots” … read the question !!! I guess I should cut my throat … you people are clueless to even what the question is! \*\* I reread the question. So far, your only responses are: 1. Mac users are weirdos. 2. Mac users are outnumbered. You are not contributing to this thread, you are even threatening to bring in outside PC people to argue against Macs. You obviously have no personal experience in the design field. Design doesn’t mean you know how to make web pages, Design means you can produce professional published documents at the highest standards in the industry. Once again, let me attempt to deal with the OP question DIRECTLY. Have PCs reached parity with Macs in the Design arena? No. Mac’s outnumber PCs by about 500 to 1 in the design field. Have PCs reached technical parity with Macs? No. Windows has no color matching technology, their font technology is incompatible with industry-standard methods, just to name the top 2 complaints amongst designers. If someone with Mac experience sat down at a PC with Photoshop and Quark (to quote the OP) would there be a big difference? Yes. A HUGE difference. Everything about Windows is set up inefficently, where Apple took great pains to make them work efficiently. All your work will be slower and more difficult on a wintel box as compared to a mac (c.f. the GISTICS report I cited in a previous message). This deliberate bastardization of the Windows GUI was due to the Apple “look and feel” lawsuit. Microsoft blatantly copied the Mac, but to avoid losing the lawsuit, they did everything opposite. Mac has menus at the top, so MS put them at the bottom. Mac puts the trash can at the lower right, so MS put it at the lower left. But worst of all are the menus inside the MS application windows, where the Mac puts them at a consistent place, at the top of the screen. There is an intensive technical discussion of the poor design of the Windows GUI at: [http://www.MacKiDo.com/Interface/windows.html](http://www.MacKiDo.com/Interface/windows.html) Just to give my favorite example of how ass-backwards Windows is, to shut down your computer, you click the Start button. Now if you can actually contribute ANY factual information to this discussion, Mr. DF, I suggest you do it and refrain from mac bashing. This is not a political discussion, the OP asked specific questions and you are not answering them. You are incapable of answering them since you said you have no mac experience. ---
**Author:** ![DeutschFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DeutschFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeutschFox)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/28 "2000-10-28T09:20:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > **Yosemite honey:** The question was “MAC vs PC” whatever … can you read or should I restate it in some other language … if you really want to see my web sites you could have looked at my profile to start … and then try some of my other 4\*\*\*\*.com sites … J_ **s C** _\*t … are you MAC people really that desperate? I really don’t know why I am try to have to prove myself to you … you MAC’ers are the losers!!! You should be proving something, because you are clearly “the minority” … but I guess we have to be politically correct don’t we … NO!!! crap is crap … So Yosemite, deary, please, why don’t you provide your perspective on this, specifically, as a _a **h** e_ graphics designer? (really sorry but what the hell, I’ve been beatin’ up enuff tonight by the wee MAC’ers) What have you done has impress the world with your MAC? ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/29 "2000-10-28T09:34:42Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by DeutschFox \* if you really want to see my web sites you could have looked at my profile to start … and then try some of my other 4_\*\*\*.com sites … \*\* Ah, now the picture is clear. DF is not a professional designer, he’s a high school kid. Look at his website at: [http://www.4zweihigh.com/](http://www.4zweihigh.com/) After you stop laughing, you should consider whether you should take design advice from someone who created a website like that. ---
**Author:** ![DeutschFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DeutschFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeutschFox)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/30 "2000-10-28T09:36:16Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DeutschFox \* > Design doesn’t mean you know how to make web pages, Design means you can produce professional published documents at the highest standards in the industry. > > \*\* Jeez Chas … do have any clue as to why the internet is in existence today? … clues … not Gore … not professionally published documents (FDL) … not consumer products (miniscule) … look to the BBS’s of the late 70’s … it ends in x … it is unprecendented how clueless you MAC’ers really are … at the highest industry standards … are you for real? … no wonder 10% MACs in use today looks like a bonaza to MAC’ers! ---
**Author:** ![DeutschFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DeutschFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeutschFox)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/31 "2000-10-28T09:44:31Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Ah, now the picture is clear. DF is not a professional designer, he’s a high school kid. Look at his website at: > > [http://www.4zweihigh.com/\*\*](http://www.4zweihigh.com/**) Wow! Chas your are really on the ball … yes … a high school alumni site (G rated) … one of my sites … let’s see one of yours … I’m sure you have .asf productions and it is all multimedia too … and I’m not a “his” … or is that only what MAC’ers are only oriented to? ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/32 "2000-10-28T09:46:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DeutschFox \*Jeez Chas … do have any clue as to why the internet is in existence today? \*\* Why yes, I was using the internet back in the early 1970s, when it was still called ARPANET, before you were even born. The OP was not about the internet. It is about graphic design. If you have nothing to contribute to this thread except flaming, I have nothing to say to you. I don’t have the time to waste arguing with inexperienced, opinionated high-school kiddies. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/33 "2000-10-28T09:49:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DeutschFox \* > So Yosemite, deary, please, why don’t you provide your perspective on this, specifically, as a _a **h** e_ graphics designer? Deutsch, deary. I was really impressed by your high school web site. [sub]cough cough titter titter[/sub] I am NOT a “professional” graphics designer. I never claimed to be one. I am a “tinkerer”, a traditional artist who has decided to try my hand at digital art. I did my research, and decided to try Mac. After being a strictly PC person. Yes, I have been a PC person FAR longer than I have been a Mac person. Here is my [feeble, meagre web site](http://home.earthlink.net/~yosemitebabe/yosemitebabe.html) (see, _I’ll_ admit it’s feeble, I’m not shy!) with some examples of my art. I tried using my tablet drawing on my PC, it was too frustrating, and the software kept on crashing. Since I started with Macs (even an old creaky PowerMac) I found I could actually start effectively learning these graphics programs, because I wasn’t fighting the Windows interface! There. _My_ personal perspective on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![DeutschFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DeutschFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeutschFox)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/34 "2000-10-28T09:55:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by DeutschFox \*Jeez Chas … do have any clue as to why the internet is in existence today? \*\* > > Why yes, I was using the internet back in the early 1970s, when it was still called ARPANET, before you were even born. > \*\* Hey Chas, I’ll bet I am older than you … but what the heck is the purpose of this … Go MAC’ers … tscheuss und guten nacht … xoxoxox … ---
**Author:** ![DeutschFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DeutschFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeutschFox)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/35 "2000-10-28T10:09:27Z")
Yosemite, du bist wonderbar … your site is great! Thanks for providing the link. I shouldn’t say that the site could have been just as easily done with a PC, and that I have never seen a PC sight that says exclaims it was created by an IBM Compatible PC, but what the heck … it is really nice that you shared it! Ð-Fox® ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/36 "2000-10-28T10:41:37Z")
As the person who started this thread, I can now see how overwhelming the evidence is for the superiority of the Mac. Thanks mostly to Herr Fuhrer’s rantings and ravings, the issue is clearer to me than ever before. My next computer (soon) will definitely be a Mac. Thanks, everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/37 "2000-10-28T11:01:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by panache45 \* > \*\*As the person who started this thread, I can now see how overwhelming the evidence is for the superiority of the Mac. \*\* Good luck to you! I don’t know what type of Mac you are using, but if you are currently using anything before a G3, you will be astonished at how much Macs have improved in the last few years. Even a cheapo $799 350mhz iMac will blow away any previous non-G3 mac, not to mention any PC in that price range. Just to give you an example, I rendered an animation on my old PowerMac 8100/110 and it took 48 hours. I rendered the same animation on my G3/400, it finished in 20 minutes. Yow! I wonder how fast that would run on a new dual-500mhz-processor G4! ---
**Author:** ![DeutschFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DeutschFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeutschFox)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/38 "2000-10-28T11:15:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by panache45 \* > \*\*As the person who started this thread, I can now see how overwhelming the evidence is for the superiority of the Mac. Thanks mostly to Herr Fuhrer’s rantings and ravings, the issue is clearer to me than ever before. My next computer (soon) will definitely be a Mac. Thanks, everyone. \*\* No, Thank You Poncho! … wie immer, ich bin Frau Führer … I’m sure that a new MAC would fit you just perfectly. You’re only just another MAC’er trying to pretend to ask a very narrow question which might put a MAC in contention with a PC. The little MAC cube should fit perfectly on the top of your sombrero … ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/39 "2000-10-28T12:01:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DeutschFox \* > \*\*No, Thank You Poncho! … wie immer, ich bin Frau Führer … I’m sure that a new MAC would fit you just perfectly. You’re only just another MAC’er trying to pretend to ask a very narrow question which might put a MAC in contention with a PC. The little MAC cube should fit perfectly on the top of your sombrero … \*\* Oh, so it’s **Frau** Führer! Well excuuuuuuse me! And “Poncho … sombrero” ??? I don’t think so. When you act like a total jerk, you can hardly blame people for treating you like one. ---
**Author:** ![Barney111](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Barney111](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barney111)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2000, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605/40 "2000-10-28T16:58:11Z")
Although it’s not my _primary_ occupation, I do quite a bit of corporate design work – 90% of it on PC’s. A couple of thoughts: On a properly configured computer, Photoshop is no more crash-prone on a PC than a Mac. My PC’s run Photoshop, Quark, Illustrator, Corel Draw, Freehand, etc., with NO problems. Font compatability is pretty much a thing of the past. If I know that my design is going to a bureau, I simply use Type 1 fonts, and embed them. (Very rarely I’ll save them as curves.) Piece of cake. The most commonly used output types are _cross-platform_. EPS, TIFF, PDF, to name a few. Colormatching, like fonts, is not nearly the problem it used to be. Pantone has gone to great lengths to develop solutions for the PC. Don’t get me wrong, Macs are great - but I am a designer, and I prefer to work on PC’s. Just my .02. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/macs-vs-pcs-for-graphic-design/38605.md?page=3)