Mad Cow Disease - Thanks a lot British!

[TwistofFate]

Of course, if you had used “rowdy hooligans” instead of a disease in your analogy Krispy would have said it was a “third world” problem

oh lighten up Krispy. I can almost hear you getting your Fruit of the looms in a twist.

[Typo_Negative]

*Originally posted by Krispy Original *
**
First of all, who in the fuck said that MCD and nvCJS are the same thing? Nobody in this thread! Sheesh!..Correcting errors that don’t exist.

**

It kinda looked like you did.

"Now all beef and beef-product consumers risk new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (Mad Cow disease).from the OP

It certainly looks like you’re calling Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease Mad Cow disease.

[Coldfire]

*Originally posted by Krispy Original *
First of all, who in the fuck said that MCD and nvCJS are the same thing? Nobody in this thread! Sheesh!..Correcting errors that don’t exist.

What spooje said. If you want to avoid misunderstandings, you have to word things more clearly. If I say “I’m suffering from the flu (cholera)”, does it not look like I’m under the impression the two are the same?
Nice try to put the blame for your ignorance on me, Krispy. And it’s good to know everyone sees right through it.

Secondly, MCD is more than a “pan-European” problem. You really should spend a little more time in research before launching your personal attacks. Because British profit-mongers have sold meat and pellets to third-world counties, the problem is well outside of Europe. Australia may well be affected too. How much longer before the problem makes it’s way to the US?

I should have been more specific there. What I’m saying that MCD in its origins should be viewed as a Pan-European problem rather than solely a British one (as your OP implies). In terms of the effects on general health, unfortunately, the problem is more wide-spread due to the exporting of contaminated meat.
And it’s surprising to see you think of this as a personal attack. I was merely debating facts that you misrepresented. Don’t flatter yourself. It wasn’t a comment on your persona. You’d have noticed that if it had been.

All in all Coldie, a very poor rebuttal, but hey, it’s what I’d expect…

It wasn’t a rebuttal. It was a clarification so that your rant had some ground to stand on. Believe me, I’m just as pissed off about Mad Cow Disease and various European Governmenst (my own included) as you are. That doesn’t mean that it’s OK to make up “facts” on your own. Which reminds me:

The British knowingly allowed the export of beef and feed that they had outlawed in their own country.

This is blatantly untrue. While I’m still with you when you’re saying that the British (or any other European) government recognised the implications of MCD far too late, it is not true to state that they exported meat that was banned from consumption in the UK, the EU, or anywhere else. The moment British beef became subject to an export ban (initiated by the EU, lead by France), it was in fact still sold to customers in the UK.
So please don’t accuse me of not having my facts straight when:[ul][li]I’m trying to make your arguments more valid by cleaning up the inaccuracies;[/li][li]I’m on the same side of the argument as you are;[/li][li]You keep vomiting lies which you think are supporting your rant.[/ul][/li]Carry on. Factually, please.

[Krispy_Original]

Coldfire,

Next, the duplicity of the British Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, known as MAFF, exposed mainland Europeans to an unknown quantity of BSE-contaminated veal among the 2 million calves transported to European saleyards between 1990 and 1995.

MAFF sabotaged a 1990 Brussels ruling designed to prevent the spread of BSE outside Britain when it issued civil servants with secret orders to skip the computer vetting of calves designed to exclude BSE-infected animals.

The globalisation story gets worse. For eight years, debt-burdened Third World countries were lured to buy attractively low-priced BSE-suspect meat and the same protein-rich animal pellets believed responsible for Britain’s BSE problems.

Ultimately, the dumping of BSE-implicated produce, considered unfit for sale in Britain, will be recorded as another shameful chapter of British imperialism. The French Minister for Agriculture, Jean Glavany, sees it exactly in those terms, and recently commented that “morally, they should be judged for that one day. They even allowed themselves the luxury of banning the use of such feed [in Britain] while allowing it to be exported.”

No, you get your facts straight.

[Krispy_Original]

Oh, and London_Calling,

The experts were sworn to secrecy, notably regarding the export of cows and contaminated feed worldwide. One, Dr Laura Manuelidis, physician and professor of neuroscience at Yale University, proposed that the epidemic could swiftly be brought to a close with the immediate cull of infected herds. Britain’s attitude to the Manuelidis solution was, in her words, penny-wise, pound-foolish, and her idea was dismissed on the grounds that compensation for the owners of the herds was financially out of the question.

…seems like they do have the grounds…

[London_Calling]

Good quote, Krispy. Source ?

[pldennison]

[hijack] Go vegetarian! [/hijack]

[TwistofFate]

this isn’t another aluminium foil hat conspiracy theory, eh krispy?

[Krispy_Original]

London_Calling,

The link has already been provided…I had to quote it because as usual, few people really investigate the links…

Phil,

No kiddin’ man! Your people finally have a good argument!

twist,

huh?

[London_Calling]

I’m not saying you’re right or wrong about a ‘conspiracy’ of silence but I’d probably need more to convince me than a Features article in the Sydney Morning Herald that contains no quotation.

We don’t know the extent of the Doctor from Yale’s involvement, her area of study in relation to this particular research, the day/month/year of her involvement, whether she has her own career agenda, whether that is a direct quote and in context, etc, etc.

Also, the author of the article appears herself to be not unfamiliar with politics – not that I know what the ‘Global Sisterhood Network’ might be.

[Krispy_Original]

OK, here’s some more stuff for ya:

What is being done?
Very little. The British Government has hidden the facts and fiddled the evidence at every stage of the investigation into mad cow disease. It has told expert scientists, including it’s own advisors, to keep quiet in case the hugely profitable meat industry suffers. In May 1988, the government set up The Southwood Committee to examine the risks of BSE to both animal and human health. Extraordinarily, it had no experts on spongiform encephalopathies and none were consulted. Although experts in their own areas, none of the members of the Southwood Committee had done any research into spongiform diseases.

source: http://www.mad-cow.org/lacey.html

In fact, go here to find a lot of info:

http://www.mad-cow.org/

…I’m not making this stuff up folks…I’m fairly well read on the topic and I’m just surprised that the problem doesn’t get more play at the SDMB…

[London_Calling]

I don’t think you are making anything up, Krispy. As for the others, I don’t know but I’d like to know.

If you have real evidence, please bring it along. As for your next cut and paste:
“The British Government has hidden the facts and fiddled the evidence at every stage of the investigation into mad cow disease”

Which particular Government (1987, 1993 or 1996) ?
Hidden which particular facts and when ?
Fiddled which evidence ? how ? what is the source of this important news and what agenda do the people reporting it themselves have ?

” It has told expert scientists, including it’s own advisors, to keep quiet in case the hugely profitable meat industry suffers.”

Quiet about what they suspected ? were beginning to understand ? did understand ? or had scientifically proven ?
” In May 1988, the government set up The Southwood Committee to examine the risks of BSE to both animal and human health. Extraordinarily, it had no experts on spongiform encephalopathies and none were consulted. Although experts in their own areas, none of the members of the Southwood Committee had done any research into spongiform diseases.”
Extracts from the chronology of the Official (and supposedly fully independent) Inquiry into BSE:

Dec 15 1987 - Policy meeting chaired by Rees, attended by Watson, examining present situation and results of epidemiology experiment.

Jan – March 1988 - ‘Double checking of feeding histories of affected animals initiated; request sent to compounders for details of inclusion of meat and bone meal in rations fed.’

July 18 1988 – 'Ruminant feed ban comes into force (included in BSE Order 1988, but implementation delayed until 18 July). Ban to apply until 31 December 1988 while a review of rendering processes was conducted.’

Dec 30 1988 – 'The Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (No 2) Order 1988 (SI 1988 No 2299) came into force to prolong feed ban and to prohibit use of milk from suspect cattle for any purpose other than feeding to cow’s own calf.’

As you clearly understand, Krispy, it’s an important subject. Cold facts and scientific evidence should determine actions, not sensationalism and opinion.