# Mad Men 2.11: Jet Set, 10/12/08 (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 13, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662 "2008-10-13T01:50:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/41 "2008-10-14T16:18:18Z")
I can’t be the only one who noticed that you could totally see Joy’s boobs when she took her top off. Obscured by the reflection on the water later, but visible for a second at first. That surprised me on basic cable. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/42 "2008-10-14T16:27:53Z")
Hmm … I didn’t see anything. I thought they were under water the whole time. I totally didn’t recognize Joy the second time they showed her. The updo made her look like a completely different person. Who the hell was Christian supposed to be? There seemed to be an implication that he had some special relationship with Joy. And anyone got any ideas on the “pig” issue? ---
**Author:** ![Geobabe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/geobabe/32/3908_2.png) [@Geobabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geobabe)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/43 "2008-10-14T16:29:31Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > [Quote=Rubystreak] > > Duck’s back on the sauce, which will impair his ability to pull this off. They seem to be implying that Duck is really on his game only when he’s full of Dutch courage. [/QUOTE] Yeah, during the meeting, Bertie turns to Roger and says, “_There’s_ the man I heard so much about!” so he definitely feels more confident with a belt or three in him. I suspect, though, that this being back on top of his game is only going to be temporary and he’s going to fall apart again. I think his drinking is going to spiral out of control again, and it’ll be interesting to see how long it takes. > [@Tyrrell\_McAllister](#): > > Does anyone remember what happened to that package? I think he burned it, but maybe somebody else will remember for sure (or I’ll go through the recaps at TWoP and find it). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/44 "2008-10-14T16:37:41Z")
> [@Geobabe](#): > > No, he said, “It’s Dick Whitman” **Geobabe** is right. In the Midwest, “It’s Dick Whitman” can sound very much like like “Stick Whitman.” We also say “Jeet? Squeet!” (“Did you eat? Let’s go eat!”) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/45 "2008-10-14T16:38:28Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Concur. At least if it’s the same music I’m thinking of, it was kind of a laid-back tropical interpretation of “Miserlou,” but it was definitely “Miserlou.” Most people associate Miserlou with Dick Dale’s frenetic version. Miserlou (or Misirlou), meaning “Egyptian Girl”, is actually a Greek piece of music dating to about 1927. The original version is more like the one we heard on Mad Men (slow and sensual), rather than Dale’s version. I remember it as a line dance from my old college days. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/46 "2008-10-14T16:40:14Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I can’t be the only one who noticed that you could totally see Joy’s boobs when she took her top off. Obscured by the reflection on the water later, but visible for a second at first. That surprised me on basic cable. I’m with you. I was sure there was a flash of watery boobage that the editor missed. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/47 "2008-10-14T16:47:15Z")
I just went through that scene in super slow motion (I have it on Itunes). I don’t see anything other than vaguely flesh-colored underwater squiggles. There never is a recognizable breast shape, so far as I can tell. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/48 "2008-10-14T16:53:42Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > They seem to be implying that Duck is really on his game only when he’s full of Dutch courage. The implication is also that he was a complete disaster when he was drinking full-time, that it led to the dissolution of his marriage and harmed his career. I think it giveth and it taketh away. > [@](#): > > Where would Don come up with that kind of money? Don’s not as rich as Cooper or Sterling. He’s just starting his climb into the upper echelon of New York society. I doubt the jetsetters would give it to him. The jet setters just might give it to him. Joy said her father would “take care” of whatever Don needed. > [@](#): > > I think the whole point was that it was shocking. But do you think that there were absolutely zero “out” homosexuals in 1962? Sure, they were probably rare, but it’s believable that for there to be at least _one_ guy as open as Kurt. I agree with this. I think there had to be people on the vanguard, who were ahead of their time with pushing social boundaries. Kurt, Peggy, and Paul are all doing that in their own ways. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/49 "2008-10-14T16:57:30Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I just went through that scene in super slow motion (I have it on Itunes). I don’t see anything other than vaguely flesh-colored underwater squiggles. There never is a recognizable breast shape, so far as I can tell. Allow me my fantasy, damn it! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/50 "2008-10-14T16:59:24Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > The jet setters just might give it to him. Joy said her father would “take care” of whatever Don needed. It seemed to me she was saying that if Don took up her offer to become part of the Viscomte’s entourage, he wouldn’t have to worry about his living and travel expenses. First of all, I doubt Willy has enough money to buy his pet hangers-on entire Manhattan companies. The guy is living off an inherited fortune. He doesn’t work for money himself. And if they’re going to be running companies, then how can they be hangers-on? They were emphasizing that none of them worked. ---
**Author:** ![4everkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/76d3ee/32.png) [@4everkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/4everkid)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/51 "2008-10-14T17:04:41Z")
Here’s an interesting page about Mousourlou/Misirlou/Miserlou: [The Mysteries of “Misirlou”](http://www.dinosaurgardens.com/archives/297) If you scroll down you can listen to several versions from the years 1930 - 1993. Although it was originally a Greek song, I thought it was perfect for these CA scenes. It has a very seductive and mysterious, tropical feel to it in this version. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/52 "2008-10-14T17:09:18Z")
> [@jellyblue](#): > > This was just an outstanding episode, IMO. When the jet set guy showed up with 2 kids looking a lot like Don’s while Don’s in a pool with a half naked 21 year old - classic. Was it ever established who that guy was and who the children were? From the way he was talking to Joy, it almost seemed like he was an ex and they were her kids. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/53 "2008-10-14T17:15:48Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I just went through that scene in super slow motion (I have it on Itunes). I don’t see anything other than vaguely flesh-colored underwater squiggles. There never is a recognizable breast shape, so far as I can tell. It’s right when she takes it off. Like I said, it’s obscured later. I doubled-checked on my DVR and it’s definitely there. I saw it better in full-motion than I did going frame by frame for some reason. It’s very brief. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/54 "2008-10-14T17:19:14Z")
I just looked again. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this … I see nothing that would be recognizable a breast if you didn’t already know that there was supposed to be breast there. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/55 "2008-10-14T17:52:55Z")
> [@Tyrrell\_McAllister](#): > > No, Pete Campbell and Bertram Cooper also know. IIRC, Campbell accidentally received a package from Draper’s brother, which contained all the incriminating information. Campbell tried to blackmail Draper, and then tried to make good on his threat by telling Cooper. Cooper, however, just didn’t care. > > Does anyone remember what happened to that package? No, they know him as Don, even though they have reason to believe he may have had a past life as someone named Dick. They don’t know him as Dick. My point was that whomever he called knows him as Dick. ETA: I was looking closely for nipple and was disappointed to not see any. I wouldn’t be surprised if in post they blurred out any trace of it from underwater. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/56 "2008-10-14T18:11:14Z")
The person he phoned as Dick Whitman must be the woman who confronted him with “You’re not Don Draper” when he was selling cars. Was she looking for the real Don Draper? Or was she looking for Dick and somehow discovered that he was passing himself off as Don? Doper speculation needed here! Who do you think she is? ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/57 "2008-10-14T18:28:07Z")
You guys know there are lots and lots of boobies - of all colors, shapes and sizes, available in full exposure and in pairs - all over the internet, for free…right? 😃 Nice link there, **4everkid**. Very informative! ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/58 "2008-10-14T20:06:26Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > And if they’re going to be running companies, then how can they be hangers-on? They were emphasizing that none of them worked. First of all, it’s just my speculation, so arguing about it is sort of pointless, but they wouldn’t be running it. Don would be, on their behalf. Seems like exactly the kind of thing they’d do-- throw money at someone and let him do their dirty work. Don can’t not work, IMO. It’s part of his nature. > [@Camus](#): > > Was it ever established who that guy was and who the children were? From the way he was talking to Joy, it almost seemed like he was an ex and they were her kids. The boy looked to be at least 8 years old. If Joy is 21, there’s pretty much no way it’s her kid. Also, he was telling Joy that he was tired of dealing with his wife’s lawyers, who were keeping his kids away from him. Joy’s not their mother. Maybe Christian is her brother. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/59 "2008-10-14T20:28:02Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > The person he phoned as Dick Whitman must be the woman who confronted him with “You’re not Don Draper” when he was selling cars… That happens years ago (I’m thinking about a decade). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662/60 "2008-10-14T20:30:32Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > but they wouldn’t be running it. Don would be, on their behalf. Seems like exactly the kind of thing they’d do-- throw money at someone and let him do their dirty work. I think there is a point to be made here – It’s pretty clear to me that Joy was not offering Don money to do whatever he wanted, nor was she offering him a salary. She was offering Don a specific position – as a companion – and reassuring him that his expenses would be paid. How much money do you think they’re willing to throw around, and for what benefit? How would it benefit Viscomte Willie to pay for Don to run an advertising agency? Willie was offering to support Don _as part of his entourage_. There’s no reason to believe that he would support Don unless Don was actually in his physical company. “You’re good looking and you don’t talk much.” _That_ was the benefit that Willie would be getting from supporting Don. He would not be getting that benefit if Don was off running Sterling Cooper. And this emphasizes the decision that Don has to make – Don’s not being offered freedom by Joy and Viscomte Willie in the form of untold riches – he’s being offered a position as a kind of servant who gets to live in comfort. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-11-jet-set-10-12-08-open-spoilers/467662.md?page=4)