# Mad Men 2.12: The Mountain King, 10/19/08 (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 20, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694 "2008-10-20T02:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/41 "2008-10-20T18:17:23Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > Seems to be a mix of fantasy fulfillment by proxy and schadenfreude. I can’t remember when she planted the seeds, but i think it was when her own marriage was already on the rocks– why not ruin someone else’s life to make herself feel better? > > I didn’t get any indication that the rape was some sort of dream sequence. Like **Skald** said, it was all about power. Weiner set Joan up as a character who, even while subservient, had everyone wrapped around her little finger (and curvy body). He was showing that, as cute as as the idea is of some sort of sex goddess secretly running things (the woman behind every ‘good man’), her power was basically an illusion. I’m not even sure she could claim rape in 2008– he was her fiance, no major physical marks, she didn’t scratch him or yell out for help. How very Old Testament. I didn’t see the rape last night, deliberately, as when he forced her to the floor, I turned the tv off, counted to 30, and turned it back on; I figured you guys would let me know what happened, but I didn’t want the imagery in my brain. But I just watched it now and I believe he knew exactly what he was doing; he was counting on her not adding to her humiliation by calling for help. I dearly hope Joan beats his head with a candle next week. But she won’t, as Mad Men is (except for Peggy’s arc) a tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prelude_to_Fascination)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/42 "2008-10-20T18:26:28Z")
It’ll be back for a third season. [http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117994192.html?categoryId=14&cs=1](http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117994192.html?categoryId=14&cs=1) > [@](#): > > As “Mad Men” builds to what promises to be a humdinger of a finale over the next two weeks, the good news for the show’s rabid fans is that AMC has formally exercised its option for a third season of the period drama. > > But the question of who will be at the helm of the show next season is still unanswered, as the drama continues behind the scenes in negotiations between “Mad Men” producer Lionsgate and series creator-exec producer Matthew Weiner. So Weiner may or may not be back; that hasn’t been inked yet. Even if he doesn’t come back, and the show jumps, we still have had two damned good seasons. Of course, I’m hoping for the best. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/43 "2008-10-20T20:44:50Z")
> [@niblet\_head](#): > > …I wonder if Roger is just humoring Peggy cuz who cares? They’re going to merge with the Brits and he’ll make his riches and it won’t matter that he gave Peggy an office. It think he thinks she’s precious, not deserving… I think he was being sincere with Peggy. Despite her comment he was clearly aware that she’s a copywriter. It’s not just landing the account on her own; it’s landing the account and asking him directly for what she wants. Compare that to Harry’s attempt at getting a raise. I think sexism does play into it, but in the sense that he thinks _less_ of those 30 men because a _woman_:eek: had to guts to do what none of them did. It’s not that Peggy’s better that a man, the men are less than a woman. Does that make sense? About Betty’s bleeding; aren’t early miscarriages often mistaken for heavy periods? If she was pregnant I doubt she knew. Even if “Don” divorces Anna he still won’t be legally married to Betty. IANAL, but as I understand it Don and Betty’s marriage is legal because Dick Whitman wasn’t married and using a false name on a marriage application does NOT automatically void the marriage (although if Betty found out soon after she could’ve annulled the marriage). But if someone looked up all the paperwork they’d discover that the same “Donald Draper” that married Anna appeared to have married Betty without getting a divorce and Don/Dick wouldn’t be able to still claim to be that “Donald Draper” without admitting bigamy. Not only would he need to divorce Anna, he’d have to remarry Betty despite really being married to Betty and never being married to Anna. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/44 "2008-10-20T20:51:41Z")
The marriage thing: the conversation where Don tells Anna he met a wonderful woman and needs a divorce was a flashback. It happend at some point after he spilled the beans to Anna about taking Don’s identity, but before he and Betty ever married. Anna divorced Don Draper, allowing Dick-as-Don to then marry Betty. I don’t know if it was the same in the 50’s but these days when applying for a marriage license you have to certify that the name you’re using is your actual legal name and that you’ve never been married before. A minor plot hole, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/45 "2008-10-20T20:57:28Z")
Never been married before, or legally eligible to marry? If I know Don like I know Don - 😉 - he’d have handled all the paperwork for the marriage to Betty and could have shown documents that he was Don Draper (forged via documents he probably got from Anna - ie the real Don’s birth certificate) along with the divorce decree from Anna. Betty could have easily have never seen that divorce decree since Don was “handling it” (my assumption). ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/46 "2008-10-20T21:06:10Z")
Dick already had a few papers (can’t remember which ones) when Anna initially confronted him. Since she got behind the whole thing, I don’t see why she wouldn’t have given him Don’s birth certificate, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/47 "2008-10-20T22:18:44Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > And I think Roger said that the deal with the Brits would make Don $500,000. That sounds like a lot for 1962. How does that work? The Brits are buying 51%, right? Does that mean that Don is totally bought out? Is he still a partner or are any of them? I confess to an ignorance in this area of business. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/48 "2008-10-20T22:28:05Z")
I need to rewatch this episode. Somehow I didn’t realize that part of Don’s plot involved flashbacks. I thought _all_ of it took place after he was in LA.:smack: Flashbacks make much more sense. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/49 "2008-10-20T22:39:56Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > How does that work? The Brits are buying 51%, right? Does that mean that Don is totally bought out? Is he still a partner or are any of them? I confess to an ignorance in this area of business. I’m curious about this too. Maybe Alice, Bert, Roger, and Don have a proportionate share of the remaining 49%. ?? **alphaboi** , yeah, you had to watch closely to pick up the Then and Now. One clue is whether Don looks happy. That’d be Then. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Geobabe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/geobabe/32/3908_2.png) [@Geobabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geobabe)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/50 "2008-10-20T22:41:05Z")
I agree that Joan’s rape was real. And the way she just looked away and checked out suggested to me that this may not have been the first time he’s done something like this; her expression looked resigned rather than shocked. (Then again, on rewatching, maybe it was just that she decided to give in and get it over with because she really couldn’t call for help there in the office.) So disturbing. Everybody talks about what a “catch” he is, and they have no idea. I really hope that her now being in such close proximity to Peggy will inspire her to rethink her determination to do the traditional thing and get married, especially now that her fiance has been revealed to be such a scummy asshole. She’s over 30, so she feels like she has to marry this guy or end up an “old maid”, but she’s so sharp, and it would be such a tragedy for her to marry that creature. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/51 "2008-10-20T22:43:13Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > How does that work? The Brits are buying 51%, right? Does that mean that Don is totally bought out? Is he still a partner or are any of them? I confess to an ignorance in this area of business. They’ll be restructuring the stock distributions so that the Brits stake is worth 51%. It could work in several ways. Say there are 100,000 outstanding shares valued at $10 dollars each; Don owns 12,500 of those. The whole company is worth $1,000,000 dollars, and Don’s stake alone would cost $125,000 to acquire. On paper he’s worth that much; in practice of course he doesn’t have that much money on hand, but rather lives off his salary and/or the profit distribution. If Sterling wanted to buy Don out, he’d have to offer him $125,000, or more if Don wanted a premium. If the Brits want to acquire the company outright, so they’ll pay each partner more than $10 a share. For it to be worth it to the partners, it has to be considerably more than $10 a share, though, because the company is profitable and they each have a comfortable income stream. Looking at the market, the Brits seem to have decided that each share is worth $40 a share. Structured that much, Don gets $500,000 (though not all at once). But he’s now, functionally, an employee, even if technically he still owns stock in the company; the Brits own more than have the stock, so they have control no matter what the current partners say (after they agree, of course). I’m sure someone will be along shortly to point out all the way I’m full of crap. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/52 "2008-10-20T22:53:11Z")
How can they buy Don out without his consent? He doesn’t have to sell his 12.5%, does he? Though it’s mathematically insignificant, it would keep him in on the partnership. Also, I don’t understand how, if they buy him out, he’d technically still be a partner. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/53 "2008-10-20T23:05:37Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > How can they buy Don out without his consent? He doesn’t have to sell his 12.5%, does he? Though it’s mathematically insignificant, it would keep him in on the partnership. > > Also, I don’t understand how, if they buy him out, he’d technically still be a partner. There is probably a clause in the partnership agreement saying that the partners may vote, as a block, to sell to an outside party, said vote to be decided by majority shares. This would be akin to the clause in the agreement to bring in new partners as happened when Don made partner; the agreement probably forbids them to sell to outsiders without the consent of the group, and says that if the group votes to sell itself in whole or in part, everybody goes along. Otherwise a minority partner could prevent adding a new partner. Or (and I could easily be wrong), what could be in play is issuing more stock, so that when all is said & done, the Brits own 104,081 shares (51%) and the current partners own 100,000 (49%) as a group. Since the Brits will always vote as a monolith, this means that for terms of decision-making, the current partners will no longer have any power; to make it worth their while, they’re paid more per share than Don paid (or was credited with) when he made partner. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/54 "2008-10-20T23:15:05Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > How can they buy Don out without his consent? He doesn’t have to sell his 12.5%, does he? Though it’s mathematically insignificant, it would keep him in on the partnership. > > Also, I don’t understand how, if they buy him out, he’d technically still be a partner. Also- they just voted to authorize a counter offer- I don’t know if it is yet a done deal. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/55 "2008-10-20T23:39:08Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Also- they just voted to authorize a counter offer- I don’t know if it is yet a done deal. I’m thinking Don is going to come back just in time to throw a monkey wrench in the works. Or try to, and fail. How many eps left in the season? I have no idea how they’re going to get Don back to NY. Also, question: the scene where Don is talking to the hot rod guys… was that a flashback or was that in Don’s present? ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/56 "2008-10-20T23:47:35Z")
One episode left. The hot rod guys were in the flashback. Don was wearing a 60’s style short black windbreaker and the groceries were in a paper bag. ---
**Author:** ![tarragon918](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@tarragon918](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tarragon918)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/57 "2008-10-21T00:32:44Z")
I really enjoyed most of the episode – Joan’s rape was very disturbing, however, although probably not very surprising, given what little we had seen of her fiance. In the early 60s, it would have been acceptable for the man to be sexually knowledgable, but not so much for a woman. Joan should break up with the fiance and run as far as possible from him, but she’ll probably go ahead and marry him, out of fear of ending up an old maid. ☹ What I did enjoy seeing was Don as Dick, and the other Mrs. Draper! But gah, what has happened to Don over the past 10 or so years that has changed him so much and so dramatically?! Don of 1962 isn’t a very pleasant person, yet the Dick Whitman personality seemed very nice. Is there really only one show left?! Gah, I can’t believe it; a co-worker turned me on to this show, but I’ve only been watching it for about a month or so (I’ve been able to catch up a bit, but haven’t seen all episodes so far). I love this show and especially love seeing that time through a historical perspective (esp. since I was only 10 when it really happened!). Glad to hear the AMC has renewed it!! ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/58 "2008-10-21T00:43:12Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > I loved that Popsicle ad. > > [That woman – she reminds me of someone.](http://www.wildtangents.net/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/ourlady.jpg) > > The circle in the Popsicle logo forming a halo was a nice touch. Yeah, a lot of religious imagery in this one. I had to point this stuff out to my wife as we watched - she’s never been immersed in Christian culture so misses the stuff even when they bludgeon you with it, like Dick/Don’s baptism at the end. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/59 "2008-10-21T00:55:36Z")
Hell, even with Betty’s comments about “ritual” and “Catholics know how to sell things”, I didn’t get the imagery on the Popsicle until **Meltdown** posted that piece of art. I vaguely remember Popsicle ads about sharing, but nothing that elaborate. It was never a real campaign, was it? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/60 "2008-10-21T13:48:56Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Hell, even with Betty’s comments about “ritual” and “Catholics know how to sell things”, I didn’t get the imagery on the Popsicle until **Meltdown** posted that piece of art… That particular image is from [The Miraculous Medal](http://search.catholiccompany.com/search?w=miraculous+medal&cnt=24&aid=117&new=yes&gclid=CJPqo9i6uJYCFQNfFQodKUXYKA)–quite well known to Catholics (& former Catholics.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694.md?page=4)