# Mad Men 2.12: The Mountain King, 10/19/08 (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 20, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694 "2008-10-20T02:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/61 "2008-10-21T14:12:52Z")
Was it my TV or did the color in this episode seem way oversaturated? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/62 "2008-10-21T14:46:38Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > Remember the scene where Betty gave her daughter the new riding boots? It ended with her daughter saying “Mommy, you’re bleeding,” or something like that. Did anyone catch this? I didn’t see any blood – were they implying Betty may have had a miscarriage, or am I reading to much into this? I don’t know where they’re going with this, but my assumption was that it was her period. We didn’t see anything when she stood up, just because they didn’t want to be that graphic. But I have no idea what its significance is supposed to be. > [@jellyblue](#): > > Also, what did Anna say was wrong with her legs? I missed that… She has a pronounced limp. So there’s something wrong with one of her legs. Perhaps one is a prosthesis. > [@stuyguy](#): > > Just watched the scene again in the rerun, and my money is on fantasy, not real. I think her demeanour the rest of the episode supports the claim that it was _not_ a fantasy. She’s been raped, but she doesn’t feel like she has any option but to go ahead and marry her rapist. > [@AuntiePam](#): > > I’m surprised the merger happened so smoothly. I thought Duck was being shifty, but I guess I just don’t understand how these things happen. It seemed like it was gonna be a hostile takeover. All they’ve done is agree to continue negotiating with the Brits. If they agree to give them 51 percent ownership, my guess is that they’ll issue new shares to them. Don doesn’t have to votes to stop them from doing that. > [@](#): > > And I don’t get how Roger’s need for money should be a consideration. He made his bed, etc. etc. Cooper had promised Roger’s father that he would look after Roger. This is a private company and the partners – except for Draper – have long-time personal relationships. Yeah, Cooper could tell Roger to go fuck himself, but perhaps we’re finally seeing a hint of human emotion from the old guy. > [@corkboard](#): > > I don’t know if it was the same in the 50’s but these days when applying for a marriage license you have to certify that the name you’re using is your actual legal name and that you’ve never been married before. A minor plot hole, I guess. How is that a plot hole? You certify that you either have never been married or that if you have been married, that you have been divorced. I can’t recall any U.S. state actually barring divorced people from remarrying. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > And I was surprised how casual everyone in New York was about Don disappearing for as long as he did. (Which was how long? A week?) I would think today people would be more concerned. Apparently Pete told Roger that Don was taking some time off and Roger, knowing that Don and Betty are having problems, figured he knew what was going on. > [@](#): > > And I think Roger said that the deal with the Brits would make Don $500,000. That sounds like a lot for 1962. I’ve been multiplying figures by 20 in my mind. So when Don got a raise to $45,000, I thought of it as close to a million. > [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > You get the feeling there are more kinds of women than men in the _Mad Men_ world - or at least, that some of them (ie: Don’s playtoys) have some freedom from society’s pressure cooker. None of the men do, really. Whats’isface, the boho with the beard, acts like he does, but you can tell it’s an act. They all have to play a Role. Paul Kinsey? ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/63 "2008-10-21T14:52:44Z")
I thought that this episode also finally allowed Robert Morse to allow some real range, instead of just being a caricature. He was quite good. Besides Peggy grabbing the smoke from one of the secretaries desk, she seemed to be quite comfortable with pulling out the bottle of J&B and taking a snootful or three. I think that while Peggy rises in the professional world it portents more issues in her personal world. I would be surprised to see her have a sexual relationship with one of the guys where she now has the upper hand. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/64 "2008-10-21T15:36:33Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > How is that a plot hole? You certify that you either have never been married or that if you have been married, that you have been divorced. I can’t recall any U.S. state actually barring divorced people from remarrying. If he certifies that he’s never been married, it’s fraud and the marriage is invalid. Although that’s probably the least of his fraudulent problems, considering he secretly changed identities. Alternatively, if he says that he was married but has been divorced, then the marriage certificate would show that and might lead to an uncomfortable conversation with Betty. Not sure why anyone would think that the state would bar him from marrying if he was divorced. Again, it’s minor; I was just playing out the eventual repercussions of his actions. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/65 "2008-10-21T15:47:35Z")
But why would he ask Anna for a divorce just to certify on the Don/Betty license that he’d never been married? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/66 "2008-10-21T16:24:48Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > She has a pronounced limp. So there’s something wrong with one of her legs. Perhaps one is a prosthesis. I guessed that Anna Draper might have had polio as a child and that’s why she limps. I think the timing fits, as I think she was about 35 in 1962. But given how few episodes are left, I don’t think they will pursue it further. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/67 "2008-10-21T16:38:06Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > She has a pronounced limp. So there’s something wrong with one of her legs. Perhaps one is a prosthesis. Anna’s gait doesn’t look like an ordinary limp. The Frontline documentary on McCain and Obama had a brief shot of McCain’s first wife walking, and Anna’s walk looked more like that. Both legs straight and stiff, sort of rocking from side to side, rather than favoring one leg. Re the marriage license – don’t you just have to certify that you’re not already married? Do license applications really ask about prior marriages and divorces? **niblet\_head** , Don and Betty are going to be married, presumably in California. Don and Anna have been living together as husband and wife and people know them. They need to divorce. Or maybe they were just joking about it. They were both laughing. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/68 "2008-10-21T16:42:07Z")
Yeah, I get that. I was directing that question rhetorically to **corkboard**. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/69 "2008-10-21T17:36:47Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > I thought that this episode also finally allowed Robert Morse to allow some real range, instead of just being a caricature. He was quite good. > > Besides Peggy grabbing the smoke from one of the secretaries desk, she seemed to be quite comfortable with pulling out the bottle of J&B and taking a snootful or three. I think that while Peggy rises in the professional world it portents more issues in her personal world. I would be surprised to see her have a sexual relationship with one of the guys where she now has the upper hand. I wrote upthread that the entire episode is about power and its inappropriate uses. I think that Peggy’s growing more assertive and taking power is a harbinger of not-entirely-good things to come. Her joke about having gotten Freddies office by sleeping with Don bothered me: not in an artistic sense, but in an “I like this sweet girl and hope she doesn’t go down an unfortunate path” sense. It was akin to her sitting on the lap of the client at the night club a few weeks back. She’s gotten herself onto a path toward success by her intelligence, professional acumen, and audacity, but because of her poor personal instincts is finding that path not entirely fulfilling (sort of the inverse of Joan’s situation). I think they’re setting her upt to make a bad person decision down the road. Changing the topic slightly: was I alone in thinking that Pete was going to hit his wife? And am I alone in thinking that the New York of Mad Men would be a much better city if Pete and Joan’s fiance were both killed in a car accident? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/70 "2008-10-21T17:42:52Z")
I for one think that this is one of the few instances when Pete acted like a man and stood up for himself. He told his father-in-law to keep his nose out of his marital relationship and told him to stuff his business. Pete does show an inability to communicate constructively with his wife. But he didn’t hit her. I certainly don’t think he did anything that would make me wish him dead. I can’t take sides in the disagreement between Pete and his wife. Yes, it’s a nice thing to adopt a child, _if that’s what you want to do_. Frankly, I think it’s worse for Pete’s wife to push for adoption when he’s so clearly conflicted about it. Adoption is not something that should be entered into with anything less than complete enthusiasm from all parties. Sure, Pete’s wife is in pain from being unable to conceive. But, you know what? Them’s the breaks. I don’t think Pete owes her an adoption if his heart’s not in it. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/71 "2008-10-21T17:58:56Z")
See, intellectually I agree with ascenray. If Pete has such huge issues regarding adoption, then he shouldn’t let himself be pressured into it, regardless of how valid those issues might be, because he’ll be bringing a child into an unhappy, tense environment. Subjectively, however, Pete is a smarmy little dick who I want to see get hit by a meteor. I don’t think the character has ever spent more than fifteen seconds on screen without me wanting to punch him in the face, so I agree with Skald on the car crash thing. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/72 "2008-10-21T18:02:36Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > See, intellectually I agree with ascenray. If Pete has such huge issues regarding adoption, then he shouldn’t let himself be pressured into it, regardless of how valid those issues might be, because he’ll be bringing a child into an unhappy, tense environment. > > Subjectively, however, Pete is a smarmy little dick who I want to see get hit by a meteor. I don’t think the character has ever spent more than fifteen seconds on screen without me wanting to punch him in the face, so I agree with Skald on the car crash thing. I came in to write the same thing, though I was, of course, far more verbose, being me. When I started watching, I was wary of unfairly disliking Pete based on my hatred of Connor, whom Vincent K. portrayed on \*Angel \*and who was also a smarmy dickweed the audience is meant to despise. Upon reflection, Pete is contemptible for entirely different reasons and much less justification than Connor. ---
**Author:** ![4everkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/76d3ee/32.png) [@4everkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/4everkid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/73 "2008-10-21T18:12:43Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > One episode left. The hot rod guys were in the flashback. Don was wearing a 60’s style short black windbreaker and the groceries were in a paper bag. I wondered about that scene too… if it was a flashback. But on second viewing, I decided it was not. Don mentioned to the guys that he _used to_ sell those cars. It was back in his car salesman days that he met Anna when she walked into the dealership and announced that she knew he was not Don Draper. It was later that he visited her in CA to explain his identity theft and ask for a divorce so he could marry Betty. I got the impression that Don buying groceries and looking for a fun job, was him attempting to settle into his proposed new carefree, post-Madison Avenue lifestyle. His mention of how pretty it was there, showed how content he was, and a clue that he is contemplating staying. I don’t think the hot-rod scene was the past because he wouldn’t have been inquiring about work if he was planning to go back and marry Betty. That’s how I interpreted it. ---
**Author:** ![Natty\_Bumppo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e480ec/32.png) [@Natty\_Bumppo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natty_Bumppo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/74 "2008-10-21T18:21:40Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > (Not that Don isn’t a bastard. I’m growing to hate him, and if he abandons his kids, I certainly shall). > > Peggy rocks though. I love Peggy. Couldn’t help but notice this strange combination of lines. This isn’t an attack, but I think Peggy gets off easy around here on abandoning her kid. The fact that she has been able to blot that episode out of her life makes me wonder what else she is capable of doing. Still, I love Peggy - and Don. Didn’t anyone else expect Pete to confess his adoption issues to Peggy? Wouldn’t it solve his problem to “adopt” his own child? I’m betting this comes up eventually. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/75 "2008-10-21T18:36:53Z")
> [@4everkid](#): > > I wondered about that scene too… if it was a flashback. But on second viewing, I decided it was not. I think you’re right. I’m looking at Don dressed in 60’s clothes and carrying a paper bag and thinking “That isn’t now!” Of course it isn’t **now** , it’s 1962. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/76 "2008-10-21T18:40:55Z")
Unlike Roger, Don, Joan, and Pete, Peggy is a nice person. But just like Roger, Don, Joan, and Pete, she is majorly fucked up. She’s doing well in the office, but what’s her arc? – emotionally stunted, lonely, drinking, smoking battleaxe? I can see her turning into an unsatisfied, unfulfilled office grouch who never properly dealt with her unplanned pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![Natty\_Bumppo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e480ec/32.png) [@Natty\_Bumppo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natty_Bumppo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/77 "2008-10-21T18:51:28Z")
See, I think Don’s a nice person, too. I suppose it’s okay to psychoanalize at this point, right? I keep getting the feeling that Don sleeps around because he can’t accept that he deserves a “normal” life. Sure, it’s making excuses for his poor behavior, but I think he’s genuinely a good guy with a severe case of guilt that leads him to destroy the good in his life. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/78 "2008-10-21T19:52:32Z")
> [@Natty\_Bumppo](#): > > See, I think Don’s a nice person, too. I suppose it’s okay to psychoanalize at this point, right? I keep getting the feeling that Don sleeps around because he can’t accept that he deserves a “normal” life. Sure, it’s making excuses for his poor behavior, but I think he’s genuinely a good guy with a severe case of guilt that leads him to destroy the good in his life. I also think he married Betty in a Jay Gatsby-esque fit of acquisitive pseudo-love. He admired her for how beautiful she was, how seemingly happy, how well educated and well-bred. None of those provide a real basis for a relationship, and she isn’t really his type. Obviously he craves intellectual adult companionship and Betty does not provide it. In a strange inversion of the paradigm, he cheats, not with bimbos, but with smart women, and not for the sex, but for the conversation (and also the sex, I guess). I don’t think he really feels like he is Don Draper, and thus, his relationships as Don are fake and he treats them as such. It’s not fair to the people in his life, especially his children. He’s playing a role, and it’s not fun anymore for him, so… he treats Betty like shit, and it’s degrading her into a shrill, manipulative harpy. So yes, Don is an asshole. A charming, interesting, possibly redeemable asshole, but not a nice guy anymore. As for Pete, I agree with acsenray. I was actually rooting for him in the conversation with his father-in-law, who was totally out of line. Also, Trudy, jeezus, run to Daddy when she has a fight with her husband? Get Daddy to use Clearasil as a lever? What a bitch. Granted, the communication between them is not good, but she did go ahead and make an appointment with an adoption agency behind his back, after he said he made it clear he did not want it. She is really trying to coerce/manipulate him into this adoption, and it’s awful. If he doesn’t want to, forcing him is absolutely not the right thing to do, and getting her father in on it is immature and obnoxious. In fact, it’s divorce-worthy IMO. So yeah, I’m on Pete’s side on this one. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/79 "2008-10-21T19:52:58Z")
> [@4everkid](#): > > I wondered about that scene too… if it was a flashback. But on second viewing, I decided it was not. I didn’t think it was, either. You can tell Flashback Don from Regular Don from his mannerisms and his hair (Flashback don looks more kempt); I thought that it was pretty clearly Regular Don in the hot rod scene. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694/80 "2008-10-21T20:06:20Z")
That’s interesting. I would swear it was Flashback Don in the hotrod scene, but pre-falling in love with Betty Don. He said he was looking for work, and I don’t think he has made a decision that New York is completely behind him. I think he still wants to go back, just needs an attitude adjustment first. He was talking to Anna about how he’s scratching the surface of his life but can’t quite get to it, or something; that’s not the talk of someone who has decided to shut the door on his New York life as a successful Madison Avenue executive and look for work as a grease monkey in L.A. One thing is for sure- Dick Whitman can’t deal with life- he keeps running from the life he has been living when it becomes too much. Pretty weak character trait. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-2-12-the-mountain-king-10-19-08-open-spoilers/468694.md?page=5)