# Mad-Men 3.04, The Arrangements (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 7, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126 "2009-09-07T01:39:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/21 "2009-09-07T21:00:12Z")
As someone with a horrible gaydar, can someone tell me what it was about Sal’s scene that gave him away? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/22 "2009-09-07T21:02:01Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > When he commented to Sal that he’d never had a client not want what he’d presented, that’s because in the past he’d always given them what they really needed _and_ gone to the effort to convince them that they needed it. Last time he did that was for Madison Square Gardens, and the outcome of that soured him even more. I think he was commiserating with Sal by being sarcastic in that lot of clients change their minds and have no clue what they really want. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/23 "2009-09-07T21:03:08Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > As someone with a horrible gaydar, can someone tell me what it was about Sal’s scene that gave him away? It was when he lifted his skirt and ran like a girl. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/24 "2009-09-07T21:04:28Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Re Sal’s wife getting the wake up call that hubby is a flamer I really didn’t buy the “Oh now I get it… you’re queer!” look as he was flouncing around pretending to be the Patio girl. It would have made more sense if she had put a few little things together instead of having it hit her out of the blue. Don’t you think the fact that he won’t have sex with her (and probably was never all that into it in the first place) was her first tip off? > [@Shalmanese](#): > > As someone with a horrible gaydar, can someone tell me what it was about Sal’s scene that gave him away? How many straight men do you know who would enthusiastically act out an Ann-Margret musical scene? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/25 "2009-09-07T21:12:04Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Don’t you think the fact that he won’t have sex with her (and probably was never all that into it in the first place) was her first tip off? > > How many straight men do you know who would enthusiastically act out an Ann-Margret musical scene? Get a few beers in me, and you can never tell what might happen. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/26 "2009-09-07T21:13:26Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Wasn’t Sal one of the guys who thought that Ann-Margaret had “it” when Peggy was just annoyed by the whole thing? I think he understood what the client wanted… it’s just that the client didn’t want what they thought they wanted. > > This wouldn’t have been a problem if Don wasn’t phoning in his work performance lately. He knew “Patio” was all wrong, just like he knew the Jai-Alai stuff was all wrong. He just wasn’t motivated to _do_ anything about it. When he commented to Sal that he’d never had a client not want what he’d presented, that’s because in the past he’d always given them what they really needed _and_ gone to the effort to convince them that they needed it. Last time he did that was for Madison Square Gardens, and the outcome of that soured him even more. > > This isn’t the old Don here; he’s adrift. Ooh, very insightful. I’d sort of noticed that he was knuckling down a bit, but I figured it was more a case of the writers getting sloppy with his character. But you’re right, maybe it’s showing that something has changed. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/27 "2009-09-07T21:28:20Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > This wouldn’t have been a problem if Don wasn’t phoning in his work performance lately. He knew “Patio” was all wrong, just like he knew the Jai-Alai stuff was all wrong. Did Don know that Patio was all wrong? Peggy went to him privately, hoping that he would see it as she did, and he was nothing but dismissive and scornful, even a little cruel to her. Maybe you’re right in that if he were actually focusing on the situation and trying to think about it as Peggy was, he would have gotten her point. However, he wasn’t able to see her POV, and consequently, the whole thing was a disaster, with only Peggy foreseeing it-- hence her self-satisfied smirk throughout the whole thing. ETA: > [@astro](#): > > Get a few beers in me, and you can never tell what might happen. I’d love to see that. Would you do the little skirt grab/mincing dance step, and the seductive over the shoulder glance? Sexy! Gay as hell, but sexy. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/28 "2009-09-07T21:41:48Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > As someone with a horrible gaydar, can someone tell me what it was about Sal’s scene that gave him away? I don’t think you have horrible gaydar, I think you have NO gaydar whatsoever! Sal’s hunching his shoulders forward to form a little cleavage to jiggle will haunt my dreams. All I can picture is him in a pink satin gown and a Carmen Miranda turban:D! ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/29 "2009-09-07T22:04:12Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Did Don know that Patio was all wrong? Peggy went to him privately, hoping that he would see it as she did, and he was nothing but dismissive and scornful, even a little cruel to her. Maybe you’re right in that if he were actually focusing on the situation and trying to think about it as Peggy was, he would have gotten her point. However, he wasn’t able to see her POV, and consequently, the whole thing was a disaster, with only Peggy foreseeing it-- hence her self-satisfied smirk throughout the whole thing. He made a sarcastic remark to Peggy about how stupid the name was, so he knew at least that was a bad choice. But I don’t think he really _wanted_ to see her POV – he would have had to do some work then! I don’t know if he’s just disillusioned/dissatisfied with his job, or if he’s trying to sabotage things, but there’s _something_ going on with him. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/30 "2009-09-07T22:46:17Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > I don’t know if he’s just disillusioned/dissatisfied with his job, or if he’s trying to sabotage things, but there’s _something_ going on with him. Maybe it’s the fact that Sterling Cooper is now owned by the Brits, who don’t really give a crap about the artistic aspects of things. Witness their behavior with the MSG deal. Don was a partner, now he’s just an employee, so I think his heart’s not in it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/31 "2009-09-07T23:13:50Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > He made a sarcastic remark to Peggy about how stupid the name was, so he knew at least that was a bad choice. “Patio: Because everyone wants a drink named after a floor.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/32 "2009-09-08T01:05:53Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > So Peggy’s a Norwegian Catholic? :dubious: I had the same reaction. What a great show. This episode wasn’t quite like last week’s (arguable the best of them all), but still lived up to the legacy the show is staking out. I can see this jumping a few years each season, where we see Sally becoming a heroine addict and Peggy starting her own Ad agency, with some of the guys working for her. Lots of possibilities. I love the “go watch TV” comment, even though they’ve used it before. I was about Sally’s age in 1963, and I can imagine my mother saying that to me. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/33 "2009-09-08T01:56:13Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > So Peggy’s a Norwegian Catholic? :dubious: Do we know anything about the father? I always just assumed her family was Irish Roman-Catholic for some reason. The name may be Norwegian, and the father may be, but it doesn’t necessarily follow the mother and family raised the kids that way… ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/34 "2009-09-08T02:33:57Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > So Peggy’s a Norwegian Catholic? :dubious: Heh. My Grandmother is 100% Norwegian Catholic, so I guess that makes me… 25% Norwegian Catholic. She converted when she married my French-Canadian Catholic Grandfather. And it’s not all that uncommon around here… we’ve got Finnish Catholics, Swedish Catholics… all kinds of Catholics. I guess that’s what happens when the area is scouted by Jesuits and settled by Scandinavians. What they were doing in NY City, I can’t answer that. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/35 "2009-09-08T02:46:26Z")
Peggy’s neighborhood, Bay Ridge Brooklyn, was originally settled by Norwegians. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/36 "2009-09-08T12:54:19Z")
Oh boy, Carla Gallo. Sweets’ crazy girlfriend. Could be interesting. On the Norwegian stuff: Since the mom would be upset if she found out the roomy was Swedish and [del]Peggy[/del] Margaret lied and told her she was Norwegian, we should assume that both parents are Norwegian. But they should have made the roomy Danish. Norwegians hate Danes much more than Swedes. There are Catholic Norwegians. In old parish records you’ll see them marked as “Dissenters”. Margaret mentioned pantyhose when talking to the new roomy. Were they common (and affordable) enough for her to have them in 1963? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/37 "2009-09-08T13:45:40Z")
I believe the Patio commercial didn’t work precisely because of what they said: “She’s not Ann Margaret.” Why would Pepsi want consumers to see their diet drink as an inferior version of the original? For those who are hoping to see more of Carla Gallo - just check out the last season of “Californication”. You get to see a WHOLE lot of her. ---
**Author:** ![SanibelMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@SanibelMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanibelMan)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/38 "2009-09-08T14:07:11Z")
My wife made me watch “Bye Bye Birdie” with her last night, and I realized what went wrong with the Patio ad, besides the fact that it wasn’t Ann-Margret. They ripped off the wrong song. They should have redone the version at the very end of the movie, where she’s basically telling Conrad Birdie not to let the door hit him on the way out. THAT would make sense for a commercial with a woman saying “goodbye” to sugar. But yeah, it really didn’t work without the actual actress. Did it occur to anyone to try to get the actual Ann-Margret? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/39 "2009-09-08T20:55:36Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > …Margaret mentioned pantyhose when talking to the new roomy. Were they common (and affordable) enough for her to have them in 1963? Nitpick, it was her sister, Anita, she was talking too, not the new roomie. Just how much _is_ Peggy making? She has Freddy Rumsen’s title and job (& office), but I don’t think she got his full salary (after all he had a family to support). One assumes at the least she’s making more than any of the women at SC (including Joan), and likely making more than at least some of the junior men. Pete, Ken, & Harry (being the Heads of Accounts and Media) certainly make more than her. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126/40 "2009-09-08T21:02:47Z")
As the importance of TV grows the television account guy seems to be getting more and more important, self assured and influential. He’s not a scared, craven noodge like he was in the first season. Does anyone else see this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-04-the-arrangements-open-spoilers/509126.md?page=3)